Damn strange Texans

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Originally posted by sleeveboy
So Yoshi, since you're so concerned about the economic cost of prisons, I assume you're also in favor of drug possession decriminalization, the repeal of state "three strikes" legislation, and other measures that contribute to the U.S. highest per-capita prison rate in the world? I guarantee that any of these measures would have a more profound impact on the cost of running prisons than the death penalty.

I think the major problem with the death penalty is that it runs squarely against due process. Our criminal justice system insists that a person must be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Not only that, but this obligation does not end when a verdict is passed; if new evidence presents itself, that person may appeal or even petition for a new trial. The death penalty makes this impossible, and for that reason it offends the Constitution.

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Three strikes legislation is bullshit - we need to be able to trust our judges to level the correct punishment. If we can't, then we need new judges, not restrictive legislation.

Your reasonable doubt idea is a good one - what doubt is reasonable when you're dealing with an infinitely large punishment?

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Originally posted by sleeveboy
So Yoshi, since you're so concerned about the economic cost of prisons, I assume you're also in favor of drug possession decriminalization, the repeal of state "three strikes" legislation, and other measures that contribute to the U.S. highest per-capita prison rate in the world? I guarantee that any of these measures would have a more profound impact on the cost of running prisons than the death penalty.

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No, sorry. I am in favor of cost cutting measures that result in more harsh penalties, not lighter ones. I'd rather see "three strikes and you're shot" than easing up the punishment.

Yeah. The penalty for speeding? Firing squad. Who's going to break traffic laws then? Get tough ;p

IMO they are lucky they get anything. If I were in charge I would go firing squad on them without a meal for as long as they are on death row, but thats me.

Two diet cokes. good thinking.

how is two diet cokes any good... I'm all in favor of the guy who ordered 24 (24!!!!) tacos....

Anyone anti-death penalty should browse some of these "people" who were put to death..

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statisti...ted/teague.jpg


This is one moderate ones. Is the death penalty perfect? No. Doesn't it rid the planet of some of the scum of the earth? You bet.

These "offenders" got better treatment then the people they victimized.

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Originally posted by burgundy
For some reason...that made me really sad.

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Actually...I know what you mean. :(

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Originally posted by Wildkat
Is the death penalty perfect? No. Doesn't it rid the planet of some of the scum of the earth? You bet.

These "offenders" got better treatment then the people they victimized.

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Agreed.

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Originally posted by Wildkat
Anyone anti-death penalty should browse some of these "people" who were put to death..
This is one moderate ones. Is the death penalty perfect? No. Doesn't it rid the planet of some of the scum of the earth? You bet.

These "offenders" got better treatment then the people they victimized.

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The whole problem with the death penalty is that you are just authorizing state-sponsored murder. It's fucking Eye for an Eye, Hammurabi-era type shit. I thought we moved past this sort of thing. I mean, sure, it feels good to just say, "let 'em fry!", "cut their skull open with an axe!" and shit, but isn't that a bit barbaric? Do the people that the murderers killed get brought back to life after they are executed? Sure, the people committing the crimes are barbaric, but aren't we supposed to rise above the barbarians?

Besides, like anti-capital punishment people have said, how can we be so sure that nobody innocent has been executed? Studies have already shown that death penalty convictions are sharply drawn among racial lines, so who the fuck knows what is really going on? There seems to be a wave of court cases overturned thanks to new DNA evidence or what not, people have lost 10+ years of their lives in jail. But what if those people were killed? Then what? I guess it's an okay means to an end.

And like Stone said, it ends up costing the state more to keep them rotting on Death Row than it does to keep them rotting away in prison. This is a good thing?

I used to be very much in favor of the death penalty (not in the same sort of flamebait/idiotic way that Yoshi is), now Im not... after I spent some time looking at the facts, really. It is, bottom line, a knee-jerk, barbaric, and grotesque solution to a problem that it does not fix (it doesn't act as a deterrent to crime, to the best of my knowledge - I believe crime rates are higher in states with death penalty than without) and does not accomplish anything. It's just a way for the state and the populace to feel good about themselves for a little while - it's masturbation. If the death penalty was really effective, wouldn't Texas, or China, be some sort of utopia?

I may not be as eloquent as Stone... but whatever.

THere is no utopia, so your whole argument goes out of the window in a hurry. And the constant spouting of "I believe crime rates are higher in states with death penalty than without" needs to go because these were the areas with the highest crime rates to begin with.

"There seems to be a wave of court cases overturned thanks to new DNA evidence or what not"

yeah, OLD cases.

" it ends up costing the state more to keep them rotting on Death Row than it does to keep them rotting away in prison"

well, we can get rid of a lot of the appeals process and make it cheaper...would you be happy then?