Why are old school RPGs held in such high esteem?

I don't have to go back. I explained that the combo system in Xenogears is very different to the FIGHT menu option in a Final Fantasy. The way in realtime, the buttons react and do an attack.

The way you use an item through the menu, select a team mate and he uses it a short time afterward is no different then that of Final Fantasy.

Yes, Sabins combo system is unique to a Final Fantasy. It hasn't really been done since. But the majority of gameplay is done through menus. That's the same gameplay, regardless of game.

The special moves, the swords you carry, everything like that is the game design. It's hard to comprehend that a lot of games are the same, fundamentally, in this genre. But it's true.

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Originally Posted by OmniGear

The gameplay differences between each FF are pretty obvious.

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You never said gameplay differences. You said game design. You asked me about Xenogears. I explained to you it uses that combo system which is very different then Final Fantasy.

Andrew my son, I'm not here to argue about gameplay or engines(unless it's a Toyota 4.2 liter straight six, then I'm all ears). I posted in this thread for the third time (and all subsequent times) because I noticed you being an over whelming jackass that takes himself far too seriously. As near as I can tell from all your gibberish, you want other people to think just like you do and share your opinions on RPGs and gameplay.

You're not special and "credentials" won't change that. So without further ado, go back to "proving" that which none of us can "comprehend". You're doing a bangup job.

Pa

No. I don't care if you like FF7 and think FF3 sucks.

Please show me where I said you couldn't enjoy something I don't? I didn't. The fact is, though, that somehow this little arguement stemmed from the fact that I said the story differenciates the Final Fantasies in the series, not the gameplay because it stayed, largely, the same throughout its 10 incarnations.

That's not opinion. That's fact. That's how Final Fantasy is designed.

I'll be back later to respond to Mech Deus' comments. That's something for you to watch your clock for, PaCrappa. I know you'll be eagerly awaiting.

Well, they do change things in FF... the 'under the hood' stuff might well be recylcled from 1 - 10 since it's not shown anything that would indicate that it hasn't. Like.. hit-roll =/ I've never noticed a change, but then... you really don't need to change that if you don't need to worry about "Imabalances" in the battle system like some games might (erm.. NWN for example). Point is, they have changed from a players perspective. FF1 is not like FF7 is not like FF8 (belive me, 8 was gonzo to me... I hated the way the whole thing worked) is not like FF4 or whatever. They haven't changed in the way you do this, but that's just an interface overhaul away - but it still won't change the mechanics though.

However, to your credit, I think you could point out that Final Fantasy has not progressed very much. The contrast in the gameplay in FF1 vs FF10 seems sharp but it took a long long time for it to get that way and the progress that has been made (if you want to call it progress, I say it only in the way that it is a progression from A to B which doesn't mean good to better) has been little in comparison to the time, and to the other Role-Playing game out there. Ultima for example. So in this case, you're right - but they are not each the same everytime. The diffrences are there and some are distinct and noticeable.

Well yeah, for as long as my dog is immobilized, I am too basically and that means I'll be on TNL and others for most of the day. But that's just til she's better and then I'll go back to popping in for a few minutes a day whilst you continue to live here like the outside world doesn't exist.

I actually agree with you wholeheartedly about your basic assertion regarding the FF series, but that doesn't mean you need to be a little bite in the ass that has to tell everyone (especially Mech apparently) how fucking smart you are in every other poorly constructed sentence. Nobody cares what your IQ is, what kind of grades you got, how many programming languages you know, how many games you claim to be developing or what the fuck you can prove. So far all you've really proven is that you're capable of crafting a nerve wrackingly unintelligable post.

If you see Mech before me, please ask him if he has any more crazyass 3rd Strike videos.

Pa

http://www.skotos.net/articles/TTnT_56.shtml

Read it, Andrew. Read it and learn it.

I came home expecting to see my comments attacked. Thankfully, you guys are too busy attacking each other.

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Originally Posted by Andrew, in his profile

Age - 19*
Occupation - I work at pizza hut currently*

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Sorry man, I don't mean to get personal, but your "I make games, I know how they work." tone here is terribly grating. Don't be so snobbish, it is unflattering.

Your argument here is getting out of hand. Yeah, they both use menus and all that, but you are ignoring all the game design underneath the menus just so you can keep your argument up. Or do you really think that FF3 & FF 9 play exactly the same? Yeah you use menus, but what you do with them is vastly different. It is like saying chess & checkers are exactly the same just because you move pieces around on a board. If you want to get all reductionist, we can say that all games use buttons on controllers, thus making the gameplay the same in every game ever made.

JM

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but that doesn't mean you need to be a little bite in the ass that has to tell everyone (especially Mech apparently) how fucking smart you are in every other poorly constructed sentence

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Funny, if you read the whole thread you'll see it's Mech who started the snotty replies....

Alright, I want to try, too. This looks fun.

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Originally Posted by JM

do you really think that FF3 & FF 9 play exactly the same?

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I never said they play exactly the same. They do have menus, and that means that they both use menu-based gameplay.

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Originally Posted by JM

Yeah you use menus, but what you do with them is vastly different. It is like saying chess & checkers are exactly the same just because you move pieces around on a board.

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You obviously know nothing of checkers or chess. The squares are the game design, as are the pieces. The shape of the pieces does not affect the gameplay, but the game design, to the extent that it refers to the board, limits how far the pieces can move. Because the game design and gameplay of checkers and chess are intertwined, it's a faulty comparison.

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Originally Posted by JM

If you want to get all reductionist, we can say that all games use buttons on controllers, thus making the gameplay the same in every game ever made.

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Have you ever played video games before? There are games that don't use buttons, just the joypad or joystick or other device. What about early games that used light pens?