Inside the Pentagon

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Originally Posted by Tracer

N. Korea is in shambles. They're playing a bum hand, however, they are playing it masterfully. They, in my book, are a bigger threat to the world than Iraq was (Saddam was a great threat to his people however, but the same can be said of Kim Jong Il) but nonetheless I don't see them as being as huge a threat as to spark a long war. China back them because it's thier guy and I don't think they like him but it's THIER guy (so to speak). The USA has backed all sorts (as we all know) just because they'll serve our interests. Those interests, as we've seen, expire.

I have hope that better resolutions can be made with China in reguards to Taiwan yet. At least its an incredibly better situation than we've got between Israel and Palestine. Asia can be seen as a "powder keg," in some ways but its a small one. In the early 1990s the Balkans were seen as a "powder keg," too.

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True N. Korea is in shambles but WWII was started over economic failure for the most part (Hitler started the war to recover the economy) and if the Cold War had had several cards thrown into it, it might've gone to a full war with economic collapse of the Soviet Union in some way (another Clancy book, Soviet Union invades Europe over oil). N. Korea is gonna be thrown into war within the next 5-10 years and if China backs with their own military it's gonna be extremely bad. The Chinese have a ground army just about as big as our own. A modern air-force, not much in the way of a navy but that would have limited impact, they do have a lot of submarines, the quietest ones in existance as well.

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Originally Posted by DOVESKI

I read some journal (I believe it was Project for the New American Century or something like that) that stated the the US needed some military prescence in that area because we were getting kicked out of Saudi Arabia and China or Russia would have made some sort of power grab if we didnt.

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That could be true...although Russia isn't doing shit and won't be for a good long while, their country is in completely horrible shape and their military is worth practically nothing these days. China has been making a good deal of power-grabs these days, they ended up with the Panama Canal someway or another.

So our defense spending is because of China? Is that where we are going with this discussion?

I wouldn't put it in that direction but I think our defense should be spending because of China, they get a lot of neglect in international affairs when in all reality they are like the new Soviet Union in military terms (not completely, from about 1943-1981 I would say the Soviet Union was powerful enough to beat any country in the world if it invaded Europe, even the US, China is like the under-dog to the US but still extremely powerful militarily).

I recall that Hitler had improved the economy before war was actually declared. I know that was a strong platform for him to gain power and control though. However, the dictator is already in place in N. Korea. Germans fought for thier fatherland with some passion (just got done reading alot on Market Garden) despite haveing very little working in thier favor at that time (out numbered and allieds controlling the air, they did have fantastic defensive postions though... and Montgomery was a gomba). I don't think North Koreans have much to fight for - I'm not sure what zeal they posses but I'd wager it's less than what was encountered in Iraq. A larger millitary is the diffrence.

I understand the Chinnese have a strong military but they have a sence of self-preservation and at the moment or in the forseeable future I would not expect a war between them and the US unless the United States provokes it which I also do not see happening.

Back to the topic of spending - would you say that given all of the threats in the world and the type and calibur of said threats as well as thier likelyhood and the precence of our highly militarized allies that our spending is justified? Not even accounting for the "lost money" that is no doubt ending up in someones pockets. Not even accounting for the fact that the standard American rifle is plauged with defects and other military systems are in place (admitted by Rumsfeld) without proper or rigorous enough testing?

I think a lot of spending is done because of mismanagement as well, the government doesn't always do a good job of that sort of thing.

And as for Hitler starting the war for economic purposes, the economy had improved vastly before the war but it only did so more when the Nazi's enjoyed military victory all over Europe. N. Korea is a complete Communist state that is mostly isolated from the rest of the world, I'm willing to be those people have been brain-washed to hell and would gladly die for their country like many Communists have. I know that China doesn't want a war with the US but they might be thrown into one depending on what happens in Korea in the next few years.

@Tracer

If someone can get on a gatamn plane and scare everybody with a box cutter, kill 2000 people in the heart of NYC, a 5 million dollar missle isnt gonna do shit. So we can invest in better intelligence and siphen the rest into better helath care, retirement plans, medi care, etc...you know all those boring un-manly liberal issues that make peoples lives better.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

It could happen if we went into a war like that, it would be all out China or all out United States as the winner, I really don't think China can win but there army is a lot bigger and advanced then I think most people know/give credit for. Clancy wrote a book about China invading Russia (and get hammered far worse then I think they would) because the US market stopped buying Chinese goods but the incentive was newly discovered oil in Russia...guess it would be a different situation.

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Invading Russia, not the Soviet Union? What's the name of that book?

*gets out x-mas wish-list*

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Originally Posted by DOVESKI

@Tracer

If someone can get on a gatamn plane and scare everybody with a box cutter, kill 2000 people in the heart of NYC, a 5 million dollar missle isnt gonna do shit. So we can invest in better intelligence and siphen the rest into better helath care, retirement plans, medi care, etc...you know all those boring un-manly liberal issues that make peoples lives better.

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Yeah but a lot of people don't realize that terrorists and whatnot arn't the only threat, a country can rise to extreme military power in 5 years and basically cause a shitload of trouble. And China is part of the issue, call it the second Cold War I suppose.


Brisco Bold, yeah the book is set in 2000, it's called "The Bear and the Dragon" It's a good 1100 pages long with only 100-200 being dedicated to the war, lots of political whatnot and things that lead up to the war.

Thanks for the name. I'll check it out