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Tekken is checkers, VF4 is chess. Tekken is on crack, VF4 earned a PHD is whooping ass. It's certainly a flawed game, especially compared to VF4; but that's the case with every 3D fighter out there now. Face it, VF4 has raised the bar in terms of balance and gameplay that no other 3D fighter is even close to. Um...word.
Anyone who would cite this combo video and the "high priority" of throws as examples of how it's broken obviously has limited experience with the game. That combo is insanely difficult to do, it is in no way simple to do and infinite juggles like this could never happen in a regular game. In fact, I would guess that a combo similar to this will NEVER be done in an actual game, the setup is impossible. It would take absolute perfect setup, which could never happen. What prevents infinites from being simple is wall teching. On most juggles when the player hits the wall that player can "tech," or roll to the side, ending the juggle. Teching doesn't always get you out of trouble because if the other guy anticipates your tech he can hit you out of it, so it's kind of a mix-up. This combo is untechable because of the precise way the opponent hits the wall. A combo like this could only be done on that stage.
Throws are in no way over-powered in Tekken, they lost a lot of strength in Tekken 4 because most of the throws with a left punch break have been changed to a right punch break, meaning that for 95% of the throws, the break is either right punch or both punches. Throws can also be ducked, unlike in other fighters, like the Street Fighters. Throws have very limited uses in Tekken 4, although some characters admittedly have some powerful throws.
I am not trying to argue here that Tekken 4 is not "broken." I am simply trying to say that the arguments presented here in no way show that Tekken 4 is "broken." If you wanted to argue that Tekken 4 was broken you could list things like the high priority of jabs, Kuma's Just Frame Salmon Hunter, Jin's Just Frame, Jin's general dominance among the characters, infinite juggles against columns, etc. Jabs are just entirely too strong in this game. Namco lowered the range of the back dash, which makes it difficult to get out of close range once you're there. Jabs are just so simple to use and so difficult to counter. The game often turns into a jab fight in which sometimes 100% of the life lost in the round is due to jabs. Kuma's Just Frame Salmon Hunter is an easy to do move that you can use in a juggle. The juggle takes off nearly 80% of the other character's life. Do that juggle, and a few jabs later your opponent will be dead. Jin is just entirely too powerful in the game, too. He has some of the best jab strings in the game, his just frame laser scraper is way too powerful. And lastly, the infinite column juggles. Unlike this combo video the column infinites are incredibly easy to do. The columns are bugged in Tekken 4, and when the opponent hits a column in a juggle it is possible to keep juggling them with a simple left punch. There is no way to escape it since the columns are bugged and you can't tech off of them. Namco seems to have spent little time working out the bugs and actually balancing the game. It definitely shows in Tekken 4. I would by no means call this game utter shit. I played the game for a long time, and practiced quite a bit to understand exactly how broken this game is. Anyone with passing knowledge of the game and very little experience actually playing the game is completely unable to accurately judge whether or not this game is "broken." In the future, if those of you with limited experience want to trash this game on another forum, use the above arguments that I have listed. This way it will actually seem like you know what you're talking about. Thanks...I'm new here.
I still remember the first time I played Tekken 3.
I saw a poster on the wall of the arcade showcasing it, and lo and behold, the cabinet right below it.
I saw a 4-button 2D fighter with clunky, unappealing character designs.
I saw myself pulling off excruciatingly slow combos with button-mashing technique.
I saw basically the same dial-a-combo heavy gameplay that made Mortal Kombat 3 and Killer Instinct so crappy.
All in all, I saw a good $0.50 I'd never see again get flushed down the toilet.
Damn flux=rad, you sure know your Tekken...:)
Exactly.
If people would play the game before commenting on it they'd know that chaining together so many side wall impacts like that isn't something you see in regular play. People admit they don't play the game but are somehow qualified to determine what gameplay elements are "broken". That makes no sense!
The game is flawed, no doubt about it, but it's not because of this. To add to your list, there's also Fox's mid hitting jab, Christie's locking up, Christie's side throw glitch, other pillar glitches, King's multi-throw mashing, I'm sure there's more I've left out. The fact that some players want every match in the Arena stage shows that Namco rushed the game.
If someone ever did something remotely like that to me in an arcade, I'd tear off his ball-sack. :)
I have no real comments about you guys' Tekken back-and-forth business. I just don't like the game, so I won't comment. I know very little about Tekken 4, but I've diliked all the other three, thus giving me a fairly biased opinion, but so tis' life...
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Damn, Sakura 316, sorry that they made fun of your son, Tekken 4. You must've worked hard all those years making that game, there.
But, seriously, it's just a game. Don't take it personally, since (odds are) the game has little to nothing to do with you. Had you never existed, Tekken 4 would be exactly the same game.
I, myself, have never liked the floaty physics and the VERY delayed gameplay of Tekken. Maybe it's a generation thing. If you weren't weaned on SF and KOF, then maybe you prefer the 3D fighting games. I dunno. I can kick some serious ass in SF, and it's all timing, anticipation, and skill. When I play Tekken, it feels like slow button mashing, dial-a-combo hell. I don't want to take the time out to learn everyone's chains so I can block effectively. Any game where you can get taken out of a crouch block by a regular punch that isn't an air attack or an overhead is pretty lame IMO.
I've tried them all, and although I still don't enjoy any as much as a good 2D fighter, my favorite so far is Soul Calibur. Maybe if I was better at VF4. I think the problem I have is I don't know what it IS to be good at these games. Is it just blocking big chains, waiting for an opening, and throwing out your own big chain? Someone, please quickly explain the basics of Tekken!
I grew up on Capcom and SNK. My name is from Capcom. I play and love just about any fighting game I can get my hands on. Anything from Versus series, MK, SC, DOA, VF, and of course Tekken. Tekken is what I play the most, but a big part of the reason is that the arcade stopped carrying Capcom and Neo games so my source of competition in games is just Tekken.
Is it just blocking big chains, waiting for an opening, and throwing out your own big chain?
No, it's the exact opposite. Tekken is all about fast poking, especially T4. Fox's 1,2,1 is a lot better than any 10 hit combo. Good Tekken is actually pretty fast with an emphasis on custom strings and setups, not the big chains you see newbies do.
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People admit they don't play the game but are somehow qualified to determine what gameplay elements are "broken". That makes no sense!
It makes sense when they play then game, and find the problems that cause them to stop playing and consider the game broken.
for me, it was this
the pace of the game seemed to be based on landing one hit, and attaching the rest of the combination for 30-40% damage. regularly.Quote:
Is it just blocking big chains, waiting for an opening, and throwing out your own big chain?
Breaking combos came off an unintuitive, but this is just me not liking arbitrary buttons to hit to cancel a combo. It doesn't make much sense in respect to gameplay, and with a game that is dependent on comboing(as far as I can tell) there should have been a better way to handle it. There was also the nature of the moves in my combos,many of which I couldn't seem to pull off independently, and maybe this is a mistake on my part, but that came off as "inputted battle commands", as opposed to combining moves. I wasn't combining the three air attacks I knew using a combo system. I was "performing" an attack that happened to have those moves. What they were and how they were done doesn't matter, since they were all attached to the combo. what move? one of Hwoarangs, don't get me into specifics, I stopped playing Tekken a long time ago.
this is a short post, but these were my problems with the game. Living off of my basic attacks and the special maneuvering the game would allow seemed near impossible, but I am quite capable at doing that in nearly every other game I've played. In Tekken, the ability to know what the combo program is for a given attack was too valuable.
As you say, good tekken is supposed to be about poking, so I'll just plead a psychic force on this one. I may be able to find something good in there, but the interest in doing so isn't present. . . . And, I have a general distaste for combos in general. The skill, is in landing the attack that initiates it. Allowing them to stretch out is what I would call bad programming(people shouldn't just sit there taking hits), but others call it a necessity of the genre.