Euro 2004

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Originally Posted by Takumi

The 89th minute incident was not a goal; he clearly tackled the goalkeeper.

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Why is everyone so blind? I know England's performance overall was sloppy: I agree with you! But whichever way you look at it, that goal was a goal! The goalkeeper was stranded and jumped into them (or at least made an attempt at jumping, Terry was in the air before he even had a chance). But heaven forbid the hosts should lose to a last minute goal. That wouldn't be right, would it? Sheeesh...

And the score might have been 8-1 if the Portugese could keep the ball low. As I said, of the 20+ attempts on goal at least a good 75% of them were long distance shots that sailed harmlessly over the crossbar.

Was anybody actually watching the same game I was? I know I'm English, and likely to be a little biased, but you can't seriously say you didn't notice any of this?

:wtf:

I think the English are beeing arses towards Portugal.

Chris no one is making Portugal bigger than it is.That's just an excuse.We know what we are we just hope we win like verybody else.

The 89th minute "goal" was disallowed cause the english player was pressing Ricardo in the small area.

And don't say the referee was playing in our side, please.I know how it is when you lose but please try to be less biased.

We Portuguese aren't know for our physicall strength in the pitch.Of course that isn't an excuse but I point the finger to one english player who does the same tha (ONLY) Deco and Ronaldo do (the other players aren't divers my friend) - Beckam.

Oh and Takumi - Figo doens't even deserve to play!He's clearly not a good player naymore.Ive been saying this for a long time now...Even before the European...

In the end luck was on our side but even tho I'm Portuguese I think we deserved to win.

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I think the English are beeing arses towards Portugal.

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Not sure what you mean by that. Were you watching an English broadcast of the match?

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Chris no one is making Portugal bigger than it is.That's just an excuse.We know what we are we just hope we win like verybody else.

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Fair enough... I agree, we're all the same. :)

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The 89th minute "goal" was disallowed cause the english player was pressing Ricardo in the small area.

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I assume by pressing you mean pushing. I watched that replay over and over, and there was no pushing. Terry jumped upward into the air, and Ricardo tried to jump up immediately afterward, pushing into Terry. The ball was going beyond Terry and he was stretching for it. To foul the keeper, he'd have to be heading in the opposite direction! No referee could have possibly called a foul for that whilst so far away. I seriously doubt whether he actually had a clear view... at the time, I heard the commentator say that the ref was a fair way away from it. The linesman signalled nothing wrong, incidentally.

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And don't say the referee was playing in our side, please.I know how it is when you lose but please try to be less biased.

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Sorry, but it definitely felt that way. Like I said, I try not to be biased, but I just saw clash after clash where an Englishman would get tripped down and the ref would wave to play on. This happened more readily this way round than the other. I'm just calling what I see. I'm naturally going to show some bias, and remember every good decision Portugal had more than England. It just seemed that Portugal got far too many.

(By way of a side note, the referee was Swiss. England beat Switzerland 3-0 last week. Just pointing it out.)

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We Portuguese aren't know for our physicall strength in the pitch.Of course that isn't an excuse but I point the finger to one english player who does the same tha (ONLY) Deco and Ronaldo do (the other players aren't divers my friend) - Beckam.

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That's funny - I don't recall seeing Beckham dive once in this game. I also saw Nuno Gomes dive a few times. I don't condone diving for any player, I think it's pretty low. But it is accepted these days that every side does it to some degree. It's a sad fact, but referees just have to be on the lookout for it.

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Oh and Takumi - Figo doens't even deserve to play!He's clearly not a good player naymore.Ive been saying this for a long time now...Even before the European...

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Not aimed at me, but I was also expecting more from Figo, yet he didn't cause us the most trouble. Perhaps he's just not on form... he missed a fair share of close free kicks tonight...

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In the end luck was on our side but even tho I'm Portuguese I think we deserved to win.

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I don't doubt that. Based on England's performance tonight, you did deserve to win. But football is a funny old game. The better team doesn't always pull the victory out of the bag. England were very unfortunate not to claw a victory out of this game. That's a fact. Possession, shots on target, all this stuff is nothing. The scoreline is what counts. And you guys sneaked this one out...

;)

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Originally Posted by ChrisM-UK

What nationality are you anyway, MVS?

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The same as you.

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Originally Posted by MVS

The same as you.

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:wtf:

Then what's with the lack of any support for the side whatsoever? You're supposed to get excited, and expect them to go onto the final and win it, and then get really pissed off and call them useless when they fail! How long exactly have you been English?

;)

I'm obviously just teasing, mate, but I still reckon that was a goal. I've been reading some sources claiming that Terry's arm was on Ricardo's shoulder. This is a bit of a grey area, really. The only way people will every be satisfied in these situations is if players keep their arms glued to their sides while jumping. But you naturally use your arms to help you jump higher. If you brushes the goalkeeper's shoulder in doing so, I hardly think it constitutes a foul, least of all when the ball is already beyond the keeper and he doesn't have a hope in hell of retrieving it.

Bah... I think I'll bow out of the thread now. I've made my views clear. I feel we were robbed, but hey, nevermind. There's always next time, eh? It's only a game...

:)

Let's be fair, most of them were useless.

Defense, was the best. Cole, Campbell and the Neville's looked good.

Midfield, was gone. Scholes did nothing, though should have been left on (putting in a defender then was not good) since he was better than the alternative. Beckham? Where was he? 2 missed PK's, one good pass in 4 games. Not once did he have a free kick that looked the least bit dangerous, and put them into the wall most of the time. The man could not tackle a ham sandwich. Lampard wasn't too good either. Sure, he toughed it out and got a goal, but where was he the rest of the game? Standing around like Terry on that 1st Portugal goal, methinks.

Rooney going off hurt. Owen was playing great the first half, but the only way he got it after that was by dropping back. The passes from mid-forward were non-existant. Vassel runs a lot, but does little. Between the midfield and the forward line, there is no in play and no string of passes. I'd have to watch closely and maybe, maybe, England put 10 passes together at any one time during the game.

I'll always support them but they have to face the cold hard fact, they just don't play as good (apart from Defense) as they think they can and they lack that mental belief in themselves now that they had in Japan 2002 (where they toughed out that 1-0 over Argentina.)

That, and they fucking blow at penalties. What is that? O for 4 in penalty shootouts in major tournaments? Beckham's kick should be coming down in about 9 minutes, after it finishes orbiting the earth a few more times.

I'd love to see them win, but I've come to terms with the fact that England will never win the World Cup or Euro within my lifetime. And I plan to live another 40 years.

Oh and Owen's goal was top notch.Not every striker can do that from that position.(he was backwards to the nets once he got the ball).


But anyways Chris : if the pressing was in the penalty area it wouldn't be a fault but in football YOU CAN'T EVEN touch the goalkeeper in the small area (the little box outside the nets).You can't.

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Originally Posted by PaetTD

But anyways Chris : if the pressing was in the penalty area it wouldn't be a fault but in football YOU CAN'T EVEN touch the goalkeeper in the small area (the little box outside the nets).You can't.

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My point was, I don't think it was intentional. He didn't foul the keeper, Terry went for the ball. It looked more like an accidental brush on Terry's part, at least from what I saw. I'll see if I can dig out a rulebook or something. I'd like to know what exactly constitutes a foul on the keeper. Being in a better position than the keeper for attacking the ball shouldn't be reason for being penalised...

Onto you, MVS, I agree: our defense was the strongest part of the side. I'm not sure how much of an effect Rooney's early departure caused. With the way he's billed at the moment, I'm pretty sure it gave Portugal a psychological boost and us a psychological blow. That, and it removed one of the most energetic players we had from the field. I don't doubt that he would have scored had he been on for the whole game. But maybe I'm getting sucked into the hype.

Yeah, we blow at penalties. Always have done, and likely always will do. There I was, having a heart attack when the ref blew for the end of extra time, and Beckham missing the very first penalty made me fear the worst. I almost believed we could have won that shootout as it started to draw on, though. I wouldn't have picked Beckham or Vassell to miss. If anybody would miss, I would have expected it to be Terry first off. Gotta hand it to him, he had the balls to take one in the first 5...

I sincerely believe that they lost the belief when Rooney left the pitch. I don't think it would be completely unfair to say that he is the main reason we got this far. That, and some superb defensive work. But yeah, the midfield was crap. I can't pick out many instances where we actually kept the ball. It was just continually handed to the Portugese on a silver platter.

Oh, and when I said I was bowing out of the thread, I really meant out of further discussion of *that* game. I might have a follow up if my search for a rulebook turns up anything, but that will be all. I will be around for the rest of the tournament though. It'll be interesting to see who takes it...

;)

My crystal balls says that the smifinals will be

Portugal VS Sweden

Greece VS Denmark

No I'm not crazy.I think that Greece plays god damn good in defense.The only game where they were "pressed" to play offensivelly was agehnst Russia and they failed miserbaly.But in defense it's different and France are sucking a bit...

Then there is the Czechs;yes they are one great team but the Dannish play till the end and for some reason I just believe they will win...

Hope to be proven wrong and I hope we will face France in the final to avenge our honor ;)


Btw I'm very impressed with the English guys who have been talking on TV.They surely aren't the same arses that were always drunk and broke the law more than once tho...

They slauted Portugal and didn't even complain about anything.The majority also said they would be supporting portugal from now on.

What about you engish guys? :)

UPDATE: Located the rules for fouls and misconduct here...

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesAndR...2/05/12117.htm

It should be noted that at no time is the goalkeeper ever mentioned as being a special case to the rules: he is treated like any other player. The bottom line is that kicking, tripping, pushing, striking, charging or jumping at any opponent is a foul. And the decision ultimately boils down to the referee.

In our given scenario, Terry jumped straight up into the air in an attempt to get the ball, his arm brushing the shoulder of Ricardo. I didn't see any sign of a kick, trip, charge or strike at all, so we rule those out. I also rule out jumping, because it specifies jumping at the opponent, which he clearly didn't do (Ricardo actually jumped at him). The only thing left to assess is pushing, which brings us back to the debate. Was the goalkeeper pushed? I honestly don't believe he was. I saw Terry go up, and the Ricardo tried to jump up after him, almost trying to go through him. In stark contrast, Ricardo had his arms up and all over Terry. To me, that reeks more of a push than what Terry was doing.

The only other rule that springs to mind is that you can't "impede the progress of an opponent". Obviously, if Terry were standing on the ground and just blocked the keeper, then you could call a foul. But he was in the air going for the ball, so I don't think you can accuse him of blocking the keeper.

Unless there is some extra rule somewhere that states you cannot touch the goalkeeper (which I'd imagine should fall under the document I linked to), I fail to see what the problem was with this scenario... then again, to be absolutely sure, I'd need to see it again. And that's with a clear overhead view. I honestly think the referee gave Portugal the benefit of the doubt.

And that's the last you'll hear from me on the subject (unless someone brings something interesting to light).

;)

Regarding supporting Portugal, I'll say maybe. Everyone loves the underdog, and I would love it if Greece (who aren't usually this good) could take it. But it'd also be nice if the hosts win. What can I say, I'm strictly neutral once England invariably drop out... as long as France get knocked out, I'm happy.

:p