Hitomi in DOAU!!

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Once I did, I realized that while the graphics may be prettier, the gameplay is way too shit for 2004. They should have put some actual work into the game and gotten rid of that ridiculous item box system, the "doesn't cut it anymore" control system, and given us polygonal backgrounds so that we could have a worthwhile camera system.

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Wait, you're claiming DOAU is tons of work because they ported a game they already had onto a graphics engine they already had and utilizes an online network they already had while throwing in some extras (a lot of which they already had... sensing a theme?), but you won't say that completely rebuilding a game from the ground up while adding new areas is tons of work? You not enjoying the game has nothing to do with whether or not they put a lot of effort in it.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

I didn't complain about balance between characters, I complained about a move that is so effective and so easy to do (read: time one button press) and how much damage it does. For any one move in MvC2 to do as much as damage as a DoA2 counter it would have to kill an entire character (that's 1/3 of the way to dead).

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I'm not going to sit here and pretend Doa is a finely crafted fighting masterpiece or anything, but you're definitely exaggerating how much damage the single-button counters do. There are motion counters that do more, but even then it isn't 1/3 of a life bar. I also don't think the simple counters are as easy to land consistently as you make them out to be. If they were, nobody would play the game after the second hour.

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I don't praise Resident Evil for anything but its atmosphere.

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Okay, but according to your Ninja Gaiden law, shouldn't you not be playing it at all?

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MGS2 has perfectly workable cameras. The cameras constantly shift to show you the levels that are designed with the cameras in mind. The only problems I could see being had with the MGS cameras would occur if you got spotted, and were fighting of a bunch of enemies. Since A) that is a mistake on your part, and B) you should be shooting the enemies in first person view anyway, I don't see it as a problem at all. I have not once died or taken cheap shots in an MGS game due to a bad camera angle.

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This is fair, although there are times when you're in a cramped space and don't have the chance to use the first person view, at which times I found the camera as unwieldy as anything in NG. I definitely took my fair share of cheap shots as my ace commando couldn't figure out a way to stare straight ahead while the camera was fixed on the wall behind him. Not that it made me stop playing the game (my not really liking stealth games or Raiden did). I can deal with awkward camera moments - I think it's throwing the baby out with the bath water to ignore a whole game because of them.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I'm not going to sit here and pretend Doa is a finely crafted fighting masterpiece or anything, but you're definitely exaggerating how much damage the single-button counters do. There are motion counters that do more, but even then it isn't 1/3 of a life bar. I also don't think the simple counters are as easy to land consistently as you make them out to be. If they were, nobody would play the game after the second hour.

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Among me and my friends, counters are pretty easy. Once you start learning your opponent's attack style and patterns, it becomes way too easy to counter and deal a ton of damage. Maybe if you're playing in an arcade versus a bunch of people you don't play, then maybe counters would be challenging enough to execute that they'd come close to balancing out their ridiculous power. But since I play with a small group of friends, it's easy to learn each other--once we did in Dead or Alive 2 (and even the first game which we played a lot), counters became a huge dent in the enjoyment of the game.

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Okay, but according to your Ninja Gaiden law, shouldn't you not be playing it at all?

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I played the first game back in the day because it was definitely rad then. I didn't like RE2 or RE3 because they had some shitty atmosphere. Then I played REØ because I did a guide for it (I wouldn't have played it otherwise) and watched my friend play REmake because it has good atmosphere...and watching doesn't frustrate me. Although I'll have to say, the cameras don't bother me in RE--because the game is so slow paced, it's easy to deal with the 5-10 zombies spread throughout the game. The amount that the cameras add to the atmosphere makes up for any real gameplay problems as far as I'm concerned.

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I can deal with awkward camera moments - I think it's throwing the baby out with the bath water to ignore a whole game because of them.

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I wanted to love Ninja Gaiden--I pushed through the first two levels trying to. The camera frustrated me enough that I had zero desire to pick it up again.

Then you should know that the second level boss is pretty much the worst camera moment in the game by far. I can't think of any other scene in which the camera is close to that great a hinderance.

But bleh - in a week and a half the whole camera thing will hopefully be moot anyway. I have no idea why I'm still up at 1am debating thiszzzzzzzz

Nah, it won't be. I took a look at Hilary playing the Hurricane Pack the other day. The only camera tweak was adding camera control to the right analog stick. Since the game still automatically shifts the camera the same ways as before, the added control is only really useful when you can afford to keep your right thumb constantly on the control stick. It's definitely a welcome addition, but not enough to make me not hate it.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy

Seeing Kano post about rules actually be followed...zen. Shadow, my point is that gameplay is pretty much key in a game, and I'd rather play a game with superior gameplay than one that looked prettier.

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Well, yeah. :x

I was just saying, MotW and Co. don't own DoA that hard, considering the latter has online gameplay and all sorts of flash in addition.

Counter-trolling, if you will.

*reads 6 pages of nonsense*

Bah. You're all insane. I already said all that needed to be said by anybody in the very first reply to this thread. Team Ninja rocks. Game = instant purchase.

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Originally Posted by Cheebs

*reads 6 pages of nonsense*

Bah. You're all insane. I already said all that needed to be said by anybody in the very first reply to this thread. Team Ninja rocks. Game = instant purchase.

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I agree completely. Cept the part about Team Ninja and the actual game.

Shadow, gotcha, thanks for clarifying your points.

Just for the record, if I knew my DOA comments would get me grouped in with the rest of the knuckleheads that invaded this thread I would have refrained.

DOA isn't my thing, but if it's yours that's cool. There's a place for casual fighters, although I would rather play a game that I can spend an enternity learning the intracies of.

Also anyone who argues that MvC2 is balanced is crazy.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

MOTW is one of the worst fighting games ever created this side of SVC Chaos. TNL is the only place I have EVER heard people praising this sad pile of unplayable garbage and frankly, I'm not surprised.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Oh, and Yoshi - Mark of the Wolves is terrible. Just terrible. Its ugly, its no fun at all, its just a trash heap.

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All said, the above comments are truly ridiculous. I have no idea how people can believe such things.