My Entry for Rising Stars of Manga 4

Having just received my loser's certificate from Tokyopop today, there seems to be no reason to keep me from showing it to you. The text is a little hard to read at this size, but any larger and it becomes kilobyte-prohibitive.

The pages will be set up like they would be in a book if you have a high screen resolution (1600x1200 or something). Pages 10 and 11, for instance, have a 2 page spread, so seeing it page in order doesn't really do it justice. Most pages are set up to compliment the one across from them, so it really helps to see them properly. Also, a lot of the edges are rough or mismatching, but the perimeters get cut off in editing anyway, so if there's something odd at a border, it's probably because there was no point for me to fix it.

01
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11729
02 & 03
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11730http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11731
04 & 05
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11734http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11735
06 & 07
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11736http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11737
08 & 09
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11738http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11739
10 & 11 (this is a two page spread, need to be seen side-by-side)
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11740http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11741
12 & 13
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11742http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11743
14 & 15
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11744http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11745
16 & 17
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11746http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11747
18
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...chmentid=11748

Did they tell you why it didn't win?

I'd love to know, and see what did.

Wow, they got your loser's certificate to you a hell of a lot faster then they got mine to me for RSOM 3. I was kept in suspense to the very last second. :(

Let's see...overall, the art is great. Your anatomy is nice and you did a good job of shading (Photoshop?). Character design is okay, though a little "blah". I guess the only problem I have with it is that it's not that original (aside from the main character, I really like her). You conveyed action and movement very well, and your perspective with the characters and their environments is excellent too. Here and there the expression on some of the character's faces was a little wonky, but hey, it happens sometimes.

What I don't like are the boxy word bubbles and the font you used. The font should be more natural looking, more like actual hand lettering. It gives the story a very...I dunno...artificial feel. It would flow better if you re-did the fonts and bubbles.

Also, no offence, but the story or writing didn't really grab me. It was just "eh".

Anyway, art-wise, you're there. I'd just work on your storytelling and writing (or maybe have someone else work with you on the script) and give it another go. Good job.

Nope. Just a form letter and a "participation certificate". When I'm less seething, I'll try to contact someone there and see what the deal was.

My main guess is that it just wasn't "manga" enough. I mean, I tried to write it with the mentality, pacing, and tone of a manga, but not necessarily with the standard art stye.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Did they tell you why it didn't win?

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They don't. You just get a certificate in the mail with your name on it thanking you for your entry.

Unless you're lucky enough that, despite having lost, your entry generates enough interest with the Tokyopop editors that they invite you to a portfolio review or perhaps correspond with you via email. I was invited to a TP portfolio review in NYC where the editors were nice enough to go over my entry with me page by page and pointed out exactly what they did and didn't like, in addition to what they're looking for.

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I'd love to know, and see what did.

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You'll see what won when RSOM 4 hits bookstores.

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

Let's see...overall, the art is great. Your anatomy is nice and you did a good job of shading (Photoshop?). Character design is okay, though a little "blah". I guess the only problem I have with it is that it's not that original (aside from the main character, I really like her).

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Maybe. I don't read manga, so perhaps I'm misinformed, but there didn't seem like much out there like what I did. Are you saying the character designs aren't original, or the story (or both, if that's the case)?

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Here and there the expression on some of the character's faces was a little wonky, but hey, it happens sometimes.

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Considering I'm being compared against commercial manga, "wonky" faces is really not an issue. I actually had to turn the wonkiness up a notch since I was trying to avoid coming across to seriously or "western comic'ish".

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What I don't like are the boxy word bubbles and the font you used. The font should be more natural looking, more like actual hand lettering. It gives the story a very...I dunno...artificial feel. It would flow better if you re-did the fonts and bubbles.

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Round word bubbles take up a lot of extra space, and my frames were pretty crowded to start with. The font was Copperplate Gothic, which looks better in print than in these .jpegs, and sort of fits my fantasy/medieval theme. I would have used something like anime-ace, but those are licensed and it would be illegal to use in publication without paying the creator or buying a $70-100 font. I'm sure most people got away with it, but I didn't want anything backfiring on me later.

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Also, no offence, but the story or writing didn't really grab me. It was just "eh".

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I was trying to be anecdotal. My problem is that I like writing epic stories, and really struggle with short stories. A story that can conclude itself in 18 pages just really doesn't interest me in general, and we're talking comic pages here, with just a few lines of dialogue per page. What I went with was a way to introduce the characters, their backstory, the way they interact and some of the absurdities of their predicament, and wrap it up in a "chapter in the life of" sort-of way. I think I covered quite a bit of story in such a small space, and set it up for all sorts of expansion, but I'll agree that was probably the weakest part. I think the foundation of the story is still good though...working with the minimalist manga approach isn't really my style, and it was hard to find things for the characters to say without writing a novel.

Also, I'm sure everyone uses this excuse, but I was pretty rushed, and got the whole thing done in less than a month. Granted, it was pretty much a solid month of work, but still.

I've also considered that I might not just be a manga type of guy. I look at the shelves at Borders or something (who has quite an extensive manga section now), and hell if I can find a single thing I'd bother paying for, much less reading. They're all so droll, cliche, predictable, or juvenile...I think I spent more time looking through something like Battle Vixens, but only because that guy really knows how to draw breasts.

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Originally Posted by FuryFox

My main guess is that it just wasn't "manga" enough. I mean, I tried to write it with the mentality, pacing, and tone of a manga, but not necessarily with the standard art stye.

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The problem isn't that it's not "manga" enough. If you read the rules and info about the contest on the TP site, they state that they're not juist looking for someone to ape the traditional manga style, and that manga represents a great many types of art styles and story telling devices. If you look at the winners of the 3 previous books, you'll see a very diverse selection of art styles, some not looking like traditional Japanese manga at all.

I remember that the TP editors told me that they get submissions all the time with great art, but the stories are lacking. My entry caught their eye because they loved the writing so much. Too bad my artwork was rushed and as a result, complete shit. :cry:

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Originally Posted by FuryFox

Maybe. I don't read manga, so perhaps I'm misinformed, but there didn't seem like much out there like what I did. Are you saying the character designs aren't original, or the story (or both, if that's the case)?

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Like I said, I liked the main character...she had a cute design, and was fairly original. The only other real character (the demon hunter) just was kind of plain...in manga, you see guys that look like that all the time. The bunny was cute.

Perhaps "not original" wasn't a good way to describe your story, as I just went back and gave it a better read. It's good, it's just that the story doesn't seem to be very self-contained. It feels like you were just dropped in the middle of an ongoing thing...but as you said below, you're used to writing long, ongoing stories. What TP are looking for are stories that, while possibly a part of a larger story arc, work fine on their own.

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Considering I'm being compared against commercial manga, "wonky" faces is really not an issue. I actually had to turn the wonkiness up a notch since I was trying to avoid coming across to seriously or "western comic'ish"

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By "wonky" I just meant that the faces sometimes looked...weird. A little out of proportion. It was a minor complaint. And I wasn't comparing you to commercial manga, I just meant in general. But hey, my faces tend to come out a lot wonkier.

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Round word bubbles take up a lot of extra space, and my frames were pretty crowded to start with.

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Some more advice the TP editors gave me...they don't like cluttered pages. I have a similar problem with my entry, and they asked me to scale back the panels per page to perhaps 4-5. If you did that, you'd probably have more room to do more backgrounds...the backgrounds you did draw were really nice, but you had several pages that had no backgrounds at all.

One thing you should do is go and pick of RSOM 1-3...in the intro to each winning entry, an editor gives his opinion on the winner and discusses the pros and cons of the art and story. It's actually a great help and gives you a good idea of what they look for.

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I was trying to be anecdotal. My problem is that I like writing epic stories, and really struggle with short stories. A story that can conclude itself in 18 pages just really doesn't interest me in general, and we're talking comic pages here, with just a few lines of dialogue per page.

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Understandable, doing a self-contained 15-20 page comic is a bitch.

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Also, I'm sure everyone uses this excuse, but I was pretty rushed, and got the whole thing done in less than a month. Granted, it was pretty much a solid month of work, but still.

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All that in a MONTH? Wow, my respect just went up several notches. I did my RSOM 3 entry in a month and it didn't look half as good as yours.

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Originally Posted by FuryFox

I've also considered that I might not just be a manga type of guy. I look at the shelves at Borders or something (who has quite an extensive manga section now), and hell if I can find a single thing I'd bother paying for, much less reading. They're all so droll, cliche, predictable, or juvenile...I think I spent more time looking through something like Battle Vixens, but only because that guy really knows how to draw breasts.

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I hear that...I tend to enjoy manga art a hell of a lot more than I enjoy manga writing. But that's that RSOM is trying to change...many of the submissions they get just try to ape the art and storytelling of the manga you're complaining about, and many of the editors I talked to seemed kinda discouraged by that. They want you to do your own thing, and if it doesn't fit into the "traditional" Japanese style, that's fine. My story had a fairly complex, unconventional story that remained easy to read and flowed well, and that's what attracted TP to meet with me...well, that, and to tell me that my art needed A LOT of work. :)

TP has already started publishing several books by people who have placed in the top 10 of the RSOM contests...some look and read nothing like "normal" manga. They really are looking for something "different". So I'd suggest to you that you just do your own thing if you try again, and forget about doing "manga".

Don't mean to sound like a know it all, but I am the only person here who's met with the TP editors and had extensive conversations (both in person and through email) with them on what they look for...just trying to pass it along. :)

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

The bunny was cute.

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Technically, he's another demon that only coincidentally looks like a bunny. But that's part of his charm ;)

I actually like the story a lot more on the second read-through. I guess I made a hasty judgement. I still feel like it should be more self contained, but otherwise it's cool.

Demon bunny...hee hee.