We are teaching our kids to be worthless and lazy

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Originally Posted by avatar

What? So parents shouldn't be involved? I have been to poor and rich schools and "rich" schools usaully have more smarter, more motivated and self-driven kids than "poor" schools. I think a lot of that has to do with their "involved parents"

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There is a point that goes too far, which undermines the experience for the child. The teacher student relationship is one of the first relationships a child faces where they have responsibility in it. It is up to them to negotiate this relationship and learn how to behave to improve it and get the most out of it. Parents are intruding on this by taking over management of the relationship for them. My mom's coworkers have parents that email them every day, instead of just letting them do thier job. They come to thier child's defense and fight the teacher when thier child is in the wrong, or blame the teacher for thier child's poor grades. I guess i'm saying the parents have the same problem the kids do, they all believe thier child is entitled to special treatment.

Parents are supposed to be involved in their child's life, not take it over, not shield them from any and all hardship. Rich schools do have more smart kids. Thier smarter parents make more money and have smart children. That doesn't make them better kids. There are plenty of motivated kids in the poor schools starting from a much tougher spot. It has been every teacher I know's observation that they are more well adjusted and mature for it. That's what i was getting at.

Yeah you have to a healthy medium. Yes, its good to tell a kid if they want to be good at the piano they have to practice, while on the other hand it is wrong to do something like what Beethoven’s Dad did to him (beat his ass until he got good because he wanted the status for him and his son.)

Wealthier parents are usually more involved with their kids' lives than poor parents. I really don't even get this poor=better work ethic bull. Yeah, the Mexican in the firld works hard, great. A lot of times there is a reason why you're poor (obviously, there always is ;p), and a lot of times that reason is because they ARE lazy.

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Originally Posted by stormy

There are plenty of motivated kids in the poor schools starting from a much tougher spot. It has been every teacher I know's observation that they are more well adjusted and mature for it. That's what i was getting at.

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Also, to be fair to the poor kids, some of them have shit for parents and may not have learned a very good perspective on life. If you have an abusive home life, a lot of kids eventually start to believe that is their lot in life in one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

and a lot of times that reason is because they ARE lazy.

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Going back to the original point of the thread, how much do you believe of that is taught and how much of it is genetic?

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Originally Posted by stormy

There is a point that goes too far, which undermines the experience for the child. The teacher student relationship is one of the first relationships a child faces where they have responsibility in it. It is up to them to negotiate this relationship and learn how to behave to improve it and get the most out of it. Parents are intruding on this by taking over management of the relationship for them. My mom's coworkers have parents that email them every day, instead of just letting them do thier job. They come to thier child's defense and fight the teacher when thier child is in the wrong, or blame the teacher for thier child's poor grades. I guess i'm saying the parents have the same problem the kids do, they all believe thier child is entitled to special treatment.

Parents are supposed to be involved in their child's life, not take it over, not shield them from any and all hardship. Rich schools do have more smart kids. Thier smarter parents make more money and have smart children. That doesn't make them better kids. There are plenty of motivated kids in the poor schools starting from a much tougher spot. It has been every teacher I know's observation that they are more well adjusted and mature for it. That's what I was getting at.

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I can understand that. Overprotective parents are a problem, but I don't think they are an all of a sudden new thing and to be honest I thinks it exaggerated. I have read,heard and seen a lot of these situations and often it looks like something could have been worked out if the 2 sides stop butting heads and worked together.

I know they are motivated and smart kids in the poorer schools but it's like trying to find a diamond in the rough. They turn out better but they are not many of them.

I don't know. I mean, there are people that believe that we are just a product of our environment 100% and that everything is fated, with the illusion of choice. So if you want to take it that far, there's not a lot to discuss. Nothing is anyone's fault. blah blah blah

I think what you two are arguing over may be different per town if not per school. In small towns where the rich kids go to school with the poor kids, the poor kids are typically little worthless bastards. I imagine that for some reason or another all schools break off into groups like that. Rich kid only schools have worthless bastards and smart kids, and all poor kids’ schools the same.

I know at my own school we had poor(ish) kids that were just worthless. They didn't care about anything other than getting drunk after school. We also had upper middle class kids, who besides being able to make the grade were worthless too. As individuals they were very shallow. All they cared about was the current teen drama and if pressed with anything worth thinking about they usually just puked back up the thoughts of their parents or local preacher.

The group that was genuinely intelligent and open minded was very small. Out 86 kids, I'd say only 4 kids were actually intelligent.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

Going back to the original point of the thread, how much do you believe of that is taught and how much of it is genetic?

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Your OP looked like you were blaming Televiosn and Movies for this rather than parents.

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Originally Posted by avatar

Your OP looked like you were blaming Televiosn and Movies for this rather than parents.

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I blame everyone.

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Originally Posted by avatar

I know they are motivated and smart kids in the poorer schools but it's like trying to find a diamond in the rough. They turn out better but they are not many of them.

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There are bad kids everywhere, but categorically the teachers i know all said they would rather deal with the bad kids in the poor neighborhood than the kids and parents in the good one. And my gf teaches in east LA! I had assumed the total opposite as well, but was proven wrong.

When teachers would rather deal with gang members than spoiled children on a day to day basis, I'd say that's indicative of serious problems in our society and the way children are being raised.

I also want to add that it has nothing to do with them not being able to get away with being lazy. The gf works 10 - 12 hour days.