Fair Tax

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Originally Posted by Biff_Pocoroba

I'm a conservative, and you're not...

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Originally Posted by Spodaddy

...not all liberals.

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Notice something wrong here, fellas? None of the people you have been arguing against (and getting owned by, btw) have this strange need to label themselves as either a 'conservative' or a 'liberal'.

The reason why is because that shit is stupid and pretty much invalidates any credibility your argument has to anybody with an intelligence level higher than your average Fox News viewer. The preoccupation with having to tow the 'conservative' party line, regardless of how moronic and blatantly false some parts of it might be, is the hallmark of a mental limpdick.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

If you still think Bush has done jack shit to protect this country, you are just blind. DHS is incompetent, FEMA is shit now (compared to as it was under Clinton), the CIA is undermined and embarrassed by Negroponte and friends, our ports aren't secure, our airports aren't secure (making us take off our shoes is a fucking joke), our nuclear plants aren't secure, the government is wasting time and effort checking grandmas' phone records, I could go on.

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Again, nobody is arguing that Bush has done a perfect job. Far from it. He's not ignoring terrorism completely though, which by itself is an improvement over Clinton.

Bush had a reason to expand the government diff. Katrina, Iraq, and 911 proved that.

You are an educated man, don't fucking tell me Clinton wasn't riding the wave started by Bush Sr and Reagan.

Point blank, government doesn't need any more money right now, they need to fix the system, then we'll talk.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

I don't think anybody here is arguing that Bush has been fiscally responsible.

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Yea but people ARE arguing like tax cuts are the be-all end-all. I agree that taxes shouldn't be excessive. But guess what, most people want government to be a positive force in their lives. People want government to make sure the infrastructure is up to date, the borders are secure, the country is protected, the rule of law is inforce. That costs money. A lot of money. I have no problem paying for taxes provided it is being used wisely and to actually make the country stronger. We should be demanding accountability and wise use of our tax dollars, not for more tax cuts.

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Originally Posted by Biff

You are an educated man, don't fucking tell me Clinton wasn't riding the wave started by Bush Sr and Reagan.

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The economy went into fucking overdrive after Clinton raised taxes. I know republicans like to say that was because of Reagan and Bush Sr. but that dog won't hunt.

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Originally Posted by Biff

Bush had a reason to expand the government diff. Katrina, Iraq, and 911 proved that.

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Medicare Part D, NCLB, etc.

This thread sucks. Someone start a nonsense thread... cvc style.

And Gozen, one more thing.

Try to tell the 50,000 dollar family with 2 kids going to college that they need to pay more to help out the country, they don't give a fuck. That's the inherent flaw in the taxation system, it going to hurt Billy the mechanic more than it's going to hurt me. Maybe I sounded as if I was defending myself (I did) but I really think this nation will implode if we raise taxes 6,10,15 percent, hell they can't sell houses now.

Diff, Ronnie invented the cold war to spike our industry, and Bush kept the factory's open. Bill came up with Nafta and we lost more of our US workforce in his 8 years than EVER before.

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Originally Posted by Spodaddy

...and gutted the military while completely ignoring the escalating terrorist attacks on his country

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Lol, Lol, LOL! This is such right-wing spiel that has been disproven so many times. Or maybe Dick Cheney was lying when he told the American Society of News Editors on April 9, 2003 that the force we sent into Iraq was vastly superior in speed, technology, and training to the one used in 1991?

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Originally Posted by VP Dick Cheney

A commander-in-chief leads the military built by those who came before him. There is little that he or his defense secretary can do to improve the force they have to deploy. It is all the work of previous administrations. ... That is why we were able to win ... And that is why the current administration has been able to conduct its vast military deployments, from Baghdad to Belgrade.

The ships and planes were ready. The pilots and crewmen were prepared. The missiles, the ammunition, the equipment, and the men and women to use them were all there.

That is the military...inherited.

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Of course, The Republicans have done such a stellar job against terrorism, like completely forgetting to capture the guy responsible for 9/11, invading a country that had zero to do with it, and leaking the identities of CIA agents!

And we continue to lose blue collars every day, hell my fiance works at National Instruments and they have decided because of NAFTA that Colombia is a better place to build IC's. End result 2,500 tax payers out of work.

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

Notice something wrong here, fellas? None of the people you have been arguing against (and getting owned by, btw) have this strange need to label themselves as either a 'conservative' or a 'liberal'.

The reason why is because that shit is stupid and pretty much invalidates any credibility your argument has to anybody with an intelligence level higher than your average Fox News viewer. The preoccupation with having to tow the 'conservative' party line, regardless of how moronic and blatantly false some parts of it might be, is the hallmark of a mental limpdick.

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Two things:

A) They don't label themselves because they don't have the balls to stand up to the scrutiny a label produces and don't want to be tied to the past actions of their party.

B) There is no conservative party line. There's a Republican party line, which neither Biff or myself tow. I'm actually working on Joe Lieberman's re-election campaign this fall. There's a difference between conservative ideals and the Republican party (as evidenced by Bush's failures).

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

Again, nobody is arguing that Bush has done a perfect job. Far from it. He's not ignoring terrorism completely though, which by itself is an improvement over Clinton.

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And a vast improvement over Reagan who armed and trained Islamic fundamentalists on the taxpayer's dime.

The right likes to try and put everything in Clinton's lap, but intelligence experts almost unanimously agree that the failure to see al-Queda and the rise of anti-Western Islamism spans several administrations (all but one of which are Republican, I might add). For more information see the 9/11 Commission Report.