Gameplay and Design Origins Discussion Thread

I was pondering the puzzle platformer thing earlier for a wiki entry I was writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_games). I came to the same conclusion as you that Penguin Land is the earliest clear cut case of a puzzle platformer.

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Originally Posted by sleeve

Are you talking about "single screen platformers" or SSP's?

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No, not at all. It's a platform game where the predominant challenge is from solving puzzles. Toki Dori, Wario Land 2/3, and Lost Vikings are all good examples, along with the handheld DK games like NeoZ said.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Excitebike had a track editor on the Famicom Disk System, dunno if that was predated by some obscure PC game.

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There are level editors that predate it(Lode Runner, maybe Galactic Gladiators) but I can't think of any for driving/racing games.

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Originally Posted by sleeve

Bosses:

Phoenix, released by Centuri in 1980, is the earliest game I recall having a clearly defined "boss" encounter. Gorf is another early example in 1981. But it wasn't until Kung Fu Master came out in 1984 that the boss encounter as we know it today began to take shape: 5 levels, each with a unique boss character at the end, and each requiring a different strategy. Gradius would refine the boss concept even further one year later.

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I would say the first boss in a game would be the Golden Dragon in mainframe game dnd(around 1974-1975).

Phoenix was certainly a big moment. I think the shooter Ozma Wars(SNK, arcade, 1979) had bosses too from what I remember although they aren't very large in size. Good call on Kung Fu Master for its structure.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

was pondering the puzzle platformer thing earlier for a wiki entry I was writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_games).

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That's shaping up nicely. I think Frogs(Gremlin, arcade, 1978) deserves a mention. I consider it a "proto-platformer" of sorts. It involves jumping although you can't jump to multiple elevated platforms.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

That's shaping up nicely. I think Frogs(Gremlin, arcade, 1978) deserves a mention. I consider it a "proto-platformer" of sorts. It involves jumping although you can't jump to multiple elevated platforms.

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I was considering it, but did Frogs really have the ability to fall? I could never quite figure that game out. I think it needs overlays to make sense.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I was considering it, but did Frogs really have the ability to fall? I could never quite figure that game out. I think it needs overlays to make sense.

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Yeah, I was playing it without the overlays on MAME too but I think you can fall if you move too far to the edge.

Another possible platformer first: In Snokie, the 1983 side-scroller for Atari 8-bit and C64, you can slip down edges. It's probably not worth mentioning in the wiki though but I find it a bit interesting. That game drove me nuts as a kid. *edit - I suppose Miner 2049'er's slides are similar and it's a slightly older game.

What was the first game to use a double jump? Wiki says "Ishi Biniki" which I think is a fictitious game. The earliest I could find was in Dragon Buster, in 1984.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

What was the first game to use a double jump? Wiki says "Ishi Biniki" which I think is a fictitious game. The earliest I could find was in Dragon Buster, in 1984.

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According to Google, Ishi Biniki is just porn, so I'm guessing that's not right...

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Originally Posted by that wikipedia entry

In 1994, a small developer called Exact released a game for the X68000 computer called Geograph Seal. The game was a fully 3D polygonal first person shooter hybrid with a pronounced platform jumping component. Players piloted a frog-like mech that could jump, and then double jump or triple jump high into the air, as the camera panned down to help players line up their landing. In addition to shooting, jumping on enemies was a primary means of attack.

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I have to try this. I had no clue Jumping Flash had a precursor.

Funny you should mention that. I just did a feature on that game that went live not 5 minutes ago.
http://www.got-next.com/reviews_read.php?id=511

Nice feature. I just played a few levels of it since my last post, and it seemed pretty solid. The Wolf3D style level you mentioned was boring enough to make me quit, but everything prior was good, and the vertical level sounds cool enough to check out later.

Out of curiosity, are there any other X68000 exclusive games worth looking at?

Geograph Seal seems to be slowly gaining a bit of recognition. I remember making a thread on it here like four years ago when I first played it on emulator. I was pretty surprised to find a game so similar to Jumping Flash.

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Originally Posted by Tain

Out of curiosity, are there any other X68000 exclusive games worth looking at?

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I don't remember any being as cool as Geograph. The x68000 mostly excelled at arcade ports. I do like the side-scroller Gardis Light and the Cotton-ish shooter Cha Cha Cha too.