Are we a bunch of Sony haters?

I'm talking hardware here. I didn't say Sony invented 3D games or even 3D hardware, I said they did affordable consumer 3D hardware first, ahead of anybody. Yes Wolfenstein and Doom and Hard Drivin' exisited, but 3DFX and Nvidia were nowhere in sight in 1994. Sega and Nintendo weren't thinking about dedicated 3D for their consoles, and Sega was using Model-1 and Model-2 hardware cost 10s of thousands of dollars and didn't even do everything in hardware, despite the crazy price. Like I said before, it wasn't until 99 that Nvidia finally brought out the Geforce and did everything that the PS1 did, even though by then it did some things a lot better.

And 3D on the Saturn was definitely an after-thought. It didn't even draw triangles, it drew quads (squares), primarily so they could use it to draw scaled and rotated sprites head on. It had dedicated hardware for drawing multiple BGs, but not for transforms or lighting or shading or blending. At best they expected 3D to be an abberation. After they got wind of the PS1 Sega added an extra processor and DSP to try to replicate what Sony's GPU did, and we all know how that turned out.

Credit where credit is due, the PS1 shook things up huge.

Also, just want to add that Sony really didn't develop any good games.

Syphon Filter? - First one was better than the next installments.
NFL Gameday? - that series was terrible.
The games that did really well were not in-house games, but rather third party.

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Originally Posted by Compass

I did, and I'm sure many others did as well.

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No doubt about it, the popularization of the Skyline--and probably Nissan's decision to bring it Stateside--was heavily influenced by the popularity of Gran Turismo.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

Also, just want to add that Sony really didn't develop any good games.

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Syphon Filter's pretty good, especially when it came out. Gran Turismo is excellent. Crash Bandicoot 2 and 3 are both very good (I personally think Crash Team Racing beats any of the modern Mario Karts). NFL GameDay was way ahead of Madden by '97--the first 3D football game and actually pushed the genre forward with other innovations. There's also Twisted Metal 2, Jumping Flash, Ape Escape, Omega Boost, Rally Cross...not to mention their new franchises for PS2. Sony's first party has always been pretty strong--I don't think they get enough credit for it.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I think it's worth noting that Gran Turismo has outsold every Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Metal Gear, Grand Theft Auto, Madden, Zelda and Halo game.

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If you're using just US numbers then possibly true.

I'm not a Sony Hater. I'm a Realist.

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Originally Posted by BonusKun

That wouldn't be a waste tho.

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QFT.



As for me, I have a burning hate for Sony's video game division. They killed 2D. Booted it's ass right out the door. I will never forgive them for that.

I own a PS because I am a Bemani addict and a PS2 because it's library cannot be denied, but that's in spite of my Sony hate.

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Originally Posted by Cheebs

I hate them so much I bought their products.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

File that shit under sales don't equate to quality.

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Not arguing quality, just that the Playstation wasn't built by Square. I'm pretty sure Sony releases more games a year than MS or Nintendo, and they have alot of very successful franchises like Socom or ATV Offroad - it's just that people here don't care about many of them. Sony also doesn't go out of their way to emphasize first party games in the same way the others do.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

If you're using just US numbers then possibly true.

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No, world wide. It's a Japanese game with a European name, remember.

Here: http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php

If you can come up with a better source go for it.

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Originally Posted by outRider

And 3D on the Saturn was definitely an after-thought. It didn't even draw triangles, it drew quads (squares), primarily so they could use it to draw scaled and rotated sprites head on. It had dedicated hardware for drawing multiple BGs, but not for transforms or lighting or shading or blending. At best they expected 3D to be an abberation.

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That's the best explanation for why the Saturn used four sided polys I've seen, and there was no question at the time Sega was caught somewhat flat-footed by the 3D thing - early on they were pushing games like Astal, Bug and Clockwork Knight.

But at the same time their arcade division had made the jump to 3D, and Virtua Fighter was the Saturn's flagship system-seller in Japan. It seems odd to think they weren't planning for 3D.

The PS was outstanding. It brought a great many fantastic things to gaming, really helped push 3D, made decent analog sticks standard and had four shoulder buttons, and offered an easy development home open to anyone with a push on content aimed more at my age group at the time. They did a shitload of things right and few things wrong.

The PS2 was a piece of shit from start to finish. The controller was exactly the same with one unasked for and completely useless addition (analog buttons) that were thankfully ignored after the five games that tried it out realized how pathetic it was, while not adding earlier developments of triggers and finally having a good d-pad. The system was more powerful then the DC yet still far behind the GC and Xbox while simultaneously taking Sony forever to get good development tools out the door, ensuring that the majority of games that generation would be held back in terms of both hardware and software (the outstanding efforts of KCEJ, Squaresoft, and Criterion are greatly appreciated). Even their first-party teams had a hard time doing working with the hardware; Skygunner needed a special mode to eliminate slowdown, SOTC had a bunch of issues including the undulating landscape, GT4 couldn't do HD properly, etc. They failed (and still are) to get a good unified online system working. In what should've been the Saturn of its generation, it sold on brand name alone which allowed them to snowball through.

Then the PS3 comes out and Sony is flat-out blatant about how their only goals to improve are only to copy Microsoft and that they expect to sell their system not on games but on the PS name alone. They give us a system that is powerful but can only seem to think of things by stealing them from someone else, ensuring that everything is tossed in at the last second and therefore half-assed. People debate the long-term effects of the Wiimote on games but no one gives a shit about the Sixaxis. I wonder why. At least they finally gave us triggers, although they're backwards and I'm not yet sure how I feel about that. Even Nintendo - which still doesn't have a single game on the Wii online - appears to have a better set up and more unified online structure. NINTENDO. JESUS FUCK.

So yeah. Sony did a wonderful thing with the PS but they fucked up hardcore with the PS2, and instead of fixing their mistakes with the PS3 they do the exact thing only more pronounced. That's my issue with Sony. They have a fantastic game lineup so I buy their hardware, but it has nothing to do with my faith in the hardware and everything to do with my faith in developers.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

the PSX was the orginal name of the playstation. The playstation got its new nickname, PS1, after the release of the smaller playstation.

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No it wasn't. The PSX was part of the development name IIRC, but the finished product was never, ever, the PSX. Some gaming magazines and other people referred to it as that but they were all incorrect. The PSX was a later product that was a media center.

p.s. The smaller PS is the PSOne, so I'm waiting to hear how you explain the difference when asking a store for a "PlayStation One" as opposed to a "PlayStation 1." Do you put special inflection on the number so that people understand which model you're talking about?

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

No, world wide. It's a Japanese game with a European name, remember.

Here: http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php

If you can come up with a better source go for it.

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Hmmm interesting.