Star Wars: The Old Republic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoshi

There is way, way too much WoW praise in this thread. It's a commercial juggernaut, but its crafting and vendor model is terrible, and it caters to the lowest common denominator. What we need is something besides EVE to go way the other direction. Make it complex and require dedication. Let the dumb fucks and the people who only want to PvP or raid play something else. That's why these games fall apart for me at max level. There's nothing to do if you don't care for arenas (world PvP for life) or scheduled raids.

---

lol crafting.

I should have also mentioned customizable player housing, cities, etc. I had every collectable anything in SWG on display in my house and played for over three years continuously without getting bored.

I have to give credit to WoW for the achievements though. SWTOR's really paled by comparison.

I think TrialSword hit the nail on the head.

There's praise for WoW because it did the fights better than any other MMO ever. By the time they were done with vanilla Blizzard was developing boss fights that required coordination between all the players combined with actual physical reactionary skill, and until a few years ago every other game in the genre had the fights practically pre-determined by gear and strategy before you even went in. There was some basic LOS mechanics and that was about it. EQ had shit where the healers would literally just stand in a row and time their heals to be in order. That's it. If your group can do that you pretty much win. Shit like Nef was practically revolutionary for the genre and Naxx was just ridiculous at release.

Even up to when I stopped playing in Cata their hard mode fights were the best in the business, and I only quit because of burnout on the game itself and not because of its quality.

Stuff like FFXIV has a good set of ideas buried in there, where crafters and gatherers play a real role in a certain raid. There's a fight that cycles between two phases of either active or preparing, and while in preparation gatherers can submit materials for the upcoming battle in exchange for rewards. When the battle goes active 8-player groups of combat classes and crafters can then enter, and crafters will build things that will bolster the player side while the combat classes do their usual thing against the NPC assault.

Also: you should probably look into the upcoming ArcheAge. Here's some brief Q&A sessions about their player built housing and such.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MechDeus

There's praise for WoW because it did the fights better than any other MMO ever. By the time they were done with vanilla Blizzard was developing boss fights that required coordination between all the players combined with actual physical reactionary skill, and until a few years ago every other game in the genre had the fights practically pre-determined by gear and strategy before you even went in. There was some basic LOS mechanics and that was about it. EQ had shit where the healers would literally just stand in a row and time their heals to be in order. That's it. If your group can do that you pretty much win. Shit like Nef was practically revolutionary for the genre and Naxx was just ridiculous at release.

Even up to when I stopped playing in Cata their hard mode fights were the best in the business, and I only quit because of burnout on the game itself and not because of its quality.

---

Yeah, I don't question the quality of the raids. I just don't want to do them.

The fundamentally broken thing about the genre is the gear progression. Crafting should determine gear quality, and skill/organization should determine dungeon/raid success. Fuck tiered gear and all that shit. Beating the bosses should be its own reward. If there has to be loot as an incentive, make it trophy like.

Yoshi is so fucking weird. Only wants to play super polished AAA games or arcade/retro classics or grind for gear and other petty bullshit in an MMO by himself. And then be disgustingly critical of others for liking much less offensive things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoshi

skill/organization should determine dungeon/raid success.

---

It does like no other, that's the weird thing about your complaint. Yeah, there's a baseline gear requirement but it's always pretty easy to hit.

Actually, FFXIV probably does that a little more since I've beaten 3/5 end game fights so far using the shittiest level 50 weapons in the game. I can probably do the other two with little to no problem once I bother joining groups for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FirstBlood

Yoshi is so fucking weird.

---

This is news to no one I would think.

So wait, your dedication to useless, boring grinding should determine your loot as opposed to organizing a raid and beating a complicated boss?

get the fuck outta here.

I think Yoshi assumes that in the best available gear, you can just steamroll over WoW raid bosses - which isn't really true until the next expansion pack and never true in certain cases. I've seen level 80's wipe on level 60 content like C'thun