Star Wars: The Old Republic

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

So wait, your dedication to useless, boring grinding should determine your loot as opposed to organizing a raid and beating a complicated boss?

get the fuck outta here.

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What useless, boring grinding? We're not talking about garbage WoW crafting here.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

I think Yoshi assumes that in the best available gear, you can just steamroll over WoW raid bosses - which isn't really true until the next expansion pack and never true in certain cases. I've seen level 80's wipe on level 60 content like C'thun

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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the incentive is all wrong, and it makes crafting, which is already poorly designed, pretty worthless.

I'd like to see the exact same gear get you through every raid in a given expansion and only the actual fight complexity and difficulty get harder from raid to raid. Not having everyone look exactly the damn same would also be nice and could be handled through better designed crafting and dismissal of tired gear.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

I think Yoshi assumes that in the best available gear, you can just steamroll over WoW raid bosses - which isn't really true until the next expansion pack and never true in certain cases. I've seen level 80's wipe on level 60 content like C'thun

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TWIN EMPS LOLOLOL

Professions in SWG were mind numbing. The game was just a giant playground with no direction, what actually drew me to WoW was that it felt like a real video game combined with an MMO. I saw the instances and raids as levels, and it gave me goals to work towards.

I'm not real big on making a house, setting up vaporators and mining machines all over to mine for me while I sit at my workbench watching my dude craft shit for years.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

The game was just a giant playground with no direction

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Thus where the RP in MMORPG comes in.

But I think you're right. What I liked about it was that it wasn't like every other game. because MMOs are always going to be bad if you compare them to every other game, because the combat is typically bad, the graphics are bad, etc.

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Originally Posted by Thief Silver

How do you design it then? That's the million dollar question. WoW's model is the only one that appeals to a gigantic audience, it can be super easy to play for anyone, or challenging for the people who want to study and become amazing at the game. At the same time without requiring fighting game reaction times.

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First of all, I don't think WoW's model is what appeals to a gigantic audience. WoW is what appeals to that audience.

That audience wants a game as good as WoW which will never happen. I just don't think it's possible, Blizzard has too much institutional knowledge and knows their audience too well.

Look at Guild Wars 2 - ArenaNet has basically said this is a full real MMO (which it is), but gear and raiding is not the point. The game also encourages multiple play throughs through the same content. There's no way ArenaNet could satisfy the WoW audience better than Blizzard can.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Thus where the RP in MMORPG comes in.

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Go play Second Life.

Minecraft the MMO. Except not as hard as fighting Creepers.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Professions in SWG were mind numbing. The game was just a giant playground with no direction, what actually drew me to WoW was that it felt like a real video game combined with an MMO. I saw the instances and raids as levels, and it gave me goals to work towards.

I'm not real big on making a house, setting up vaporators and mining machines all over to mine for me while I sit at my workbench watching my dude craft shit for years.

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Why not give the player an option to do one, the other, or both?

hmm..no opinions on the Free to Play option in tor huh? not even a "i told you so". tnl is slippin