World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

But looking at your trees now (the 31 point ones I mean), you have literally zero choices to make, it's even more cookie cutter than before.

Why bother having an entire tree when the tree is built so you basically take every talent in one third of it and don't touch the other two thirds other than the top row, at most? I'd rather not have talents trees if they're going to be completely pointless. They are, completely pointless right now, there is no room to move points around. For me right now, I literally have every point that isn't specifically for PVP and I have to level to get anything else. Why make me apply the points when you know exactly where they're gonna go? Might as well streamline it so I pick the shadow PVE spec from the main choice window, would save a lot of time.

Edit: Obviously this build is no where near final, they'll probably tune it so we don't feel like we're losing shit and yeah yeah, but when you lower the points this much and force 31 points into a tree before you can touch a second tree and then put so many of those points into mandatory dps talents, it really makes them feel worthless and moves further way from fun and variety than the talent trees are live are right now.

I gotta agree with Opaque. When I messed around with the rogue talent calc it was the most brainless shit in the world to put 31 points into combat. You take every PvE talent and imp. sprint, and it puts you at a clean 31 points. Then I was looking at the other trees to see the changes and oh man what does this talent do OH WAIT. It's three tiers down, I'll never get to it. I'm taking Imp Evis, Lethality, Ruthlessness, and then 1 pity point in Remorseless Strikes. I could have figured that out when I was 15 and had no idea how to play a rogue.

They know that every raider is just going to read some spreadsheet and pick the best spec anyways. This cuts out the middle man. Who the fuck cares about hybrid specs anyways?

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

This cuts out the middle man.

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See and I'm fine with that, my point is if there going to simplify it for those reason why even bother building the trees in the first place? Just have me pick shadow, disc or holy and end it there if you're going to dumb it down this much.

And one thing to note is, a lot of people switched talents as gear, set bonuses and content deemed it necessary. I've had three (while minor changes) specs this expansion, based on my haste, crit and threat needs; and I completely removed five points from a talent once I had four piece and stats to back up dropping a spell from my rotation. DKs have moved extra points from blood to frost and back and forth, Warriors and Hunters do certain builds based off stats. With this coming expansion I will pick selected talents blizzard is forcing me to pick and I will never change them no matter what stats or set bonuses I get. Which again, is ok, but totally pointless when you look at it that way. A similar change would be making the only gem I could literally put into a red socket 23 spell power gem, no orange gems, no non matching gems, just every cloth piece with a red socket can only be filled with a 23 spell power gem, well at that point why even bother having the gem socket? Just give me 23 more spell power and call it even.

Because people that don't care about being good at the game like putting points in stupid places (and stacks of cash in Blizzards wallet) to make their gimmick abilities stronger?

You raise an interesting point.

Well you guys are definitely right about pve, but with pvp you can be more creative with your talents depending on your play style. Rather than the boring mut prep cookie cutter build, my pvp build on my rogue is all about survival and utilizes a lot of the usually shitty talent points in the combat tree. I have roughly 31k health unbuffed, combined with the bubble from the skeleton key and engi pots, a higher than average parry rating and ghostly strike from subt to keep my dodge chance high, which with unfair advantage combined with setup actually provides a decent chunk of my damage against melee characters. It's pretty retarded, but it works. I can usually last long enough to get 2 killing sprees off against most characters which is usually enough to kill them.

Won't be able to do this anymore though.

Yeah your new PVP build is whichever tree you choose, the entire tree.

Yeah blizzard! SUPER FUN TALENTS BRO!

I have literally only logged on in the last month to bounce mail.

GG

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Originally Posted by Opaque

I was just fucking with a warrior and I'm level 80 but I don't have deep wounds anymore? Really?

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That kind of a direct comparison doesn't make sense. Sure, you're missing a passive damage modifier, but you're also gaining at least one new attack, the attacks that already existed now work totally different, and you now have new rage gain abilities. That's really something that has to be mathed out, you can't just go, "This old talent was standard so it must ALWAYS be standard!"