The Divorce Thread

One of my co-workers has been with a woman for eight years. They haven't gotten married and don't plan on ever doing so as they're both quite happy with everything being just the way it is right now. I would like to get married one day, but it's really hard to argue with his setup and hearing stuff like this makes me side with him even more.

I'm not discouraged when I read these stories. Though i have yet to find anyone and date anyone, but thats beside the point. I just take this info and learn from it hence my questions.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru

Over the course of the next eight years, we had sex 2-4 times per year. There was the notable difference in her sex drive when we decided to have a kid. Suddenly, the flood gates were open and it all systems were go for about a month or two.

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Not to be a dick, but I'd have a DNA test done to make sure it's your kid.

I don't fear marriage or anything like that, but its women like Haoh's ex that really make my blood boil.

I was in a serious relationship that was heading for marriage and just like Haoh, the sex just dried up. So of course, I cheated on her. I was never caught but for some reason I still cared for her. So I tried to communicate my feelings to her. Things got better than they'd degrade again. In short, we split up. Its just a sad thing that some women really think that the sex that they give to us can't be replicated elsewhere. I know its a 2 way street and I know that there are a ton of shitty guys out there, but I have to wonder, why do I keep finding psychotic,short-sighted morons while there are other dudes out there that kick the shit outta their women, but they stay loyal and always try to make them happy.

I know the obvious punchline answers are plenty, but when you sit and think about it, why all the drama? Why all the bullshit? Why do people never learn from their mistakes? Why is the law stack so far against men? Whatever happened to loyalty?

True story:

A guy is dating this girl for about a year and a half and they decide to live together. He had the house for 7 years prior to meeting her. After a few months, they get into an argument about something and are yelling back and forth. She calls the cops and he's still upset when they got there and was yelling obscenities and got a ticket for disorderly conduct. The next day, she files for an order of protection and gets it based on the DO ticket. Then, since she has tenant's rights in NY, the court orders him out of his own house. It took him 6 months and $20,000.00 to get her out and in the meantime she moved in all of her siblings and trashed the place. To this day, he says, she has no guilty conscience about it at all.

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I know the obvious punchline answers are plenty, but when you sit and think about it, why all the drama? Why all the bullshit? Why do people never learn from their mistakes?

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Most of the time it is due to their up bringing, whenever something bad or weird happens to some one at a young age chances are that they will gravitate towards that thing as an adult. If they grew up in a house where people were always yelling and fighting then they are going to try to replicate that in their adult lives, because to them it is normal behavior and if you are not exhibiting such behavior then they feel that something is wrong and they will go out of their way to generate such a chaotic environment. And if daddy left her at a very young age then you can basically forget ever trying to get too close to her because she will do what ever it takes to sabotage the relationship.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

Its just a sad thing that some women really think that the sex that they give to us can't be replicated elsewhere.

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Yeah, if I regret anything during the course of my marriage it's that I didn't cheat and get some on the side. I might still be married today. :P

Once, she said "I'm mad at you. I'm not going to give you sex". Since when is this a fucking gift to bestow? AFAIK, it's supposed to be a mutually beneficial thing. At one point after saying something flattering to her and hinting at fooling around she told me "Why don't you get a girlfriend!?". Of course, had I done this divorce papers would've followed sooner coupled with me being villianized to my kid for the next twenty years.

Ever seen the shirt that says "I make all the rules because I have the vagina"? I think there's a lot more truth in that silly shirt than most guys ever realize. Women tend to own relationships because they know about our sex drive. In the vast majority of cases, it seems like the only guys with any hand are the ones who don't care about the girl and just having meaningless affairs everywhere. I also think just about all guys would do that to girls if they knew how. The truly happy couples do exist, but man they are rare these days.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru

Ask me anything you want, this is all old news and I'm not bitter and willing to discuss anything about anything. I'll try to make this as brief as possible, highlighting certain particular events that will make you shake your head.

Where to begin...

I never thought I would be here. I guess a lot of divorcees could say that, but I'm a really good guy and did all of the things that a husband/father is supposed to do. Ie... I didn't go to bars with my friends. I didn't forget anniversaries, birthdays, or other events. Every day off that I had was spent with the kid and the wife (and I'm not talking about an hour of playing Chutes and Ladders and spending the rest of the day watching the NFL). I made decent money and I came home at night. I participated in school activities and events, etc... Whatever you think a "life partner" should do, I did and have no guilt looking back that "I could've done this" or "I could've done that" because I did "this" and "that" all the time. I guess the theme here is that despite whatever you do there is always the "x factor" which is the person that's sharing the bed with you.

I met my wife at a house share in Fire Island, NY. A bunch of people pitched in and rented a house to hang out in on weekends in the summer and it was good times. Dated her for a year and sex was plentiful and often.

I proposed to her, got her a ring, and got ready for a family wedding at my parents house. Our wedding was ~30 people or so, all family. Funny thing is, as soon as the engagement ring was on her finger her sex drive went from 98 on a scale of 1-100 to about 10 on that scale. I passed it off as being busy with the wedding, work, etc... and thought it's just a phase and perhaps it'll work itself out. I mean, this girl says she loves me and wants to marry me, so who would think that that would be an issue? I should've seen the signs right there and moved along, but love is blind.

Over the course of the next eight years, we had sex 2-4 times per year. There was the notable difference in her sex drive when we decided to have a kid. Suddenly, the flood gates were open and it all systems were go for about a month or two. Beyond that, however, I can count on one hand the amount of times that she initiated anything during that course of time. Keep in mind that this wasn't some evangelist or Christian that I married, she acted like a porn star when we were dating and had absolutely no issues with tearing my clothes off, etc...

I had a few discussions with her about our sex life and openly said that intimacy between us is an important thing and helps to keep us close. I'm a guy and talking about shit like that is really uncomfortable because the last thing a guy wants from his wife is feel unwanted. I didn't have ridiculous expectations - if I would've gotten laid 1-2 times/month without having to jump through hoops to do it with a partner who was semi-interested, then I'd still be married today. Apparently, that was too much to ask.

To give you an example - we used to watch Roy Jones JR fight, when he was still decent, and he had a goatee shaved in a particular style. She had remarked, after a small conversation, that it would help my chances if I had a similar beard. So, I did the RJJ "look" for a couple of months and it didn't spur anything. I shaved the shit off because it was a pain in the ass to maintain and I still didn't have a partner who gave a shit. We went to the diner with my brother and sister in law and my kid. My sister in law turns to me and says "Why did you shave? It looked good." My wife says (in front of my in-laws and kid) "Because he wasn't getting any". I considered filing divorce on that day because of how humiliating that was, but I hung in there.

Events like that above happened quite a few times and I kept it all inside until Super Bowl Weekend in 2005. We got together every year in Vermont with family in friends for the weekend. I said to myself that if she pulls this embarrasing BS again in front of all of these people than I'm gone. We're in the room and her sister walks in looking for a hair brush and digs through my wifes purse and pulls out 2-3 condoms and says something. My wife turns to her and says "that's a year's supply" (Side note - condoms were used because one day she decided that "we're not having sex anyway" so why should she stay on birth control) and I'm feeling a step closer to divorce. I ate that one and put it aside, despite my vow to myself. The next night, we went to a bar with a bunch of people and partied, etc... On the walk home, I'm grouped with the fellas (boyfriends, husbands) and the girls are walking behind us laughing and having a good time. Then, out of nowhere, one of the wives/girlfriends yells out "Tom's not getting laid tonight" and I hit the fucking wall, mentally, and never looked back.

I could share more stories like this, but you get the point. I left the house to go to my parents house and think about all of this shit. We went to a marriage counselor and she basically said that, at this point, it's pointless because I wasn't in the right state of mind to begin therapy. From my standpoint, I was in the impossible position of trying to make my wife want to have sex with me. To me, either you do or you don't and that shouldn't be an issue to be coerced or otherwise meddled with. Besides, at the point that I was, I didn't want to have sex with her at all. I had had enough. And judging by my dating life over the past nearly 3 years, getting cute chicks to have sex with me isn't all that difficult.

So, anyway, I left for about 4 weeks and she pulled all kinds of shit to get me back in the house. Closing our bank accounts (despite our mutual promise to not do so), stealing $7000.00 out of my business account, writing all kinds of cards and shit about how much she loved me, etc... I came back and told her that I wasn't ready to be there and wanted to be alone to get my shit together. But, I would do it for her and the kid. We went on for about 3 months and it was friendly but I still wanted nothing to do with having sex with her. I had just hit the wall. So, she started talking about a separation agreement "in case something happens" and because she wanted to be certain of our financial situation, etc... She said that she would be alone, would never get serious with anyone again, etc... I agreed to a bunch of shit like way too much child support, giving her the house, etc.. because I believed that we were working toward a reconciliation and this was a tool in that process. We went to the notary public to sign the thing and I didn't want to and backed out (keep in mind that I never retained a lawyer because I trusted my wife) and she said we should just get this over with because we were there. Against my better judgment, I signed the agreement. On the way out she said "if you want to come back, now, you better come on your hands and knees with a $10,000.00 ring". And, she wasn't joking.

I went back to my parents house because she encouraged me to think about things and that I shouldn't worry because "she's not going anywhere" and "she'll be around". About three weeks later I have discussion with her that we should try to work things out for the sake of what we used to be like and for the sake of the kids. She blasts me for about an hour and then says the marriage is "water under the bridge" and she's moving on. I was shocked, surprised, and scratching my head. Within a few weeks of signing an agreement where we both said we were going to try to work things out, she decides she's moving on. But that wasn't the biggest shock.

A week after this, I'm driving by my house and see a truck in the driveway that I didn't recognize. It's there the next day, too. And the next. And the next. I pick up my daughter and ask her what she did today. "We went on the boat with Paul". I figured Paul was a father of a friend at school. I turn to my mother in law and ask "Who's Paul?" (I picked up my daughter at her house) and she just shakes her head and walks away. I got the picture. To make it short, within weeks of signing a separation agreement with me, she moved a new guy in, with four kids, and he's a complete loser. I realize that I have lost nothing in this marriage and have been battling the separation agreement and our financials ever since. She maintains, to this day, that she had just met him at a bar and didn't know him beforehand. I suspect otherwise.

Shit, I have to go to work. Maybe Nick or JM will chime in with their particular tales.

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I feel for you hoahmaru, and this is terrible, but all of this can be used to the betterment of everyone else on these boards: Don't do anything in life because you think you're obligated to society, or a woman. (especially the latter) This kind of mentality gets you in bad with certain people because you have to step on their toes -- but fuck them. My friend Brenda always asks me why I (usually but not always) break up with girls after a month or two of dating. I'm not desperate and if I don't absolutely love hanging out with a girl I'm not going to lead her on thinking it's a long term deal. It's honest. Girl are the worst for that shit too. They'll stay in a relationship that isn't working for YEARS. Have some fucking balls and just call it like it is.

If I had put an engagement ring on her finger and she held out on me I would have taken it back and cut her out of my life immediatly. Things like that just don't happen overnight -- she was a cold bitch the day you met her. The warm fun sexpot was obviously an act.


When I do end up settling down I'm getting a tightly written, fair prenup.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

Its just a sad thing that some women really think that the sex that they give to us can't be replicated elsewhere.

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The difference is a girl can be pounding a new guy, hell ten new guys, in the blink of an eye. Guys have to work a bit to get it. The uglier, shyer, less confident guys often don't get it at all, yet shyer, uglier, less confident girls can still get it in the blink of an eye.