System Shock 2 vs. Bioshock

I'm veering to SS2, maybe, but it's way too soon for me to decide.

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Originally Posted by sethsez

People bitched about Bioshock and Prey trivializing death in FPS, but quicksave has been doing that for well over a decade now.

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I really wish that wasn't the case. I know, I know, "don't use them if you hate them" and all that, but I'd rather most games use checkpoint saves then quicksaves. I'm just too damn weak to avoid saving at every turn.

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Originally Posted by bVork

Speaking of which, Deus Ex should be on this poll.

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I was considering doing an FPS/Adventure poll including Deus Ex instead but then I would have had to consider including the Metroid Prime games, and I haven't played Prime 3. Then there's Dark Messiah which not a lot of TNL'ers seem to have played unfortunately. I agree that Deus Ex is a better overall game than the 'Shocks. If someone combines Deus Ex's level design and complexity with Bioshock's action and artistry, it will be the best game ever.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Disagree with this point. I think Bioshock's sense of horror is more impactful because it more effectively conveys the human angle and a sense of tragedy. It's effective on a psychological level that is really chilling to the bone rather than just superficially scary.

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I think that makes its story more chilling but SS2 has that "holy shit, I'm out of ammo and going to die" factor that Bioshock doesn't. That's the horror angle I'm thinking of.

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Originally Posted by Tain

I really wish that wasn't the case. I know, I know, "don't use them if you hate them" and all that, but I'd rather most games use checkpoint saves then quicksaves. I'm just too damn weak to avoid saving at every turn.

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SiN Episode 1 had a great solution to the quicksave/load problem: the game got harder every time you quicksaved and loaded, and got easier when you restarted from a checkpoint. This allowed you to quicksave when needed but discouraged saving and loading every few seconds.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

I think that makes its story more chilling but SS2 has that "holy shit, I'm out of ammo and going to die" factor that Bioshock doesn't. That's the horror angle I'm thinking of.

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In truth, I think Thief 2 did that better than either SS2 or BioShock. Since at no point do you feel like you could fight your way out the situation and HAD to rely on stealth. I the two scariest moments I've had playing a videogame both happened in Thief games.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

I think that makes its story more chilling but SS2 has that "holy shit, I'm out of ammo and going to die" factor that Bioshock doesn't. That's the horror angle I'm thinking of.

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I'd call that more the survival side of the coin than the horror.

Bioshock is just more fun to fuck around with. I wish there was an editor mode where you could set up a room + splicers with explosives and shit and then just play around with fun ways to kill guys.

Telekinesis, cyclone trap, security drone, prox mines and trap bolts are the super mfing win.

My preference is System Shock 2. When I first played it, I was blown away. In addition, it was the first game to ever scare the shit out of me.

Bioshock is nice, too. It has some of the best delivery in atmosphere and story. But when it comes to gameplay it feels a bit too similar. It isn't something I can particularly define, but that's just how I feel.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

I was considering doing an FPS/Adventure poll including Deus Ex instead but then I would have had to consider including the Metroid Prime games, and I haven't played Prime 3. Then there's Dark Messiah which not a lot of TNL'ers seem to have played unfortunately. I agree that Deus Ex is a better overall game than the 'Shocks. If someone combines Deus Ex's level design and complexity with Bioshock's action and artistry, it will be the best game ever.

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Don't forget to throw in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. for that. It has a strong Deus Ex vibe going for me, though it trades a sense of focus for a more expansive experience. While it doesn't have true upgrades, the focus on getting the right artifacts, armor, and weaponry raises it from typical FPS to adventure fare.

It kills me to have to choose, but I think System Shock 2 slightly edges out Bioshock. As you mentioned, the horror setting is more effective, player advancement choices are actually meaningful (instead of being able to simply get *everything*) and it's much more difficult.

Even taking all of that into account, it's still a very close call. Bioshock's world design annihilates System Shock and I really like how the plasmids are given much greater emphasis than the psi skill.

I just enjoy the polish of Bioshock way, way more.