Breaking Bad

Oh totally. I was thinking of the Sausages one.

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Originally Posted by The_Meach

What kind of didn't ring true about this "super realistic" show was that he pretty much acts as a sociopath but we're never given any background of him acting that way prior to the cancer. He's shown as prideful, and maybe selfish, and emotionally poor (destitute?) but he's not shown to be sociopathic. Which isn't really how sociopaths work. Shit starts coming up earlier in life in manipulating others, acting controlling, damaging other things, etc.

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I didn't actually have a problem with that. He was a good person, or had learned to be a good person because he'd never had a reason not to be, and then reached his breaking point. Most people are capable of some truly horrible things when put into the wrong position. Walter just learned to like the feeling of being in control to the expense of everything else. It was a slow transition, and sometimes he even fought it a bit. But he never fought too hard.

James

Disagree.

The folks that "just snap" one day do just that. They don't continue down a path of making unethical decisions. That's reserved for sociopaths.

The examples of otherwise good people that DO commit ongoing crimes/atrocities (see: German irregulars on the Easter Front) have a couple pre-requisites:

1) Strong institutional/external forces that order/command the person do Bad Things;
2) Strong reinforcement of the above by their peers (such as neighbors, friends, family members);

And a couple symptoms that show the person is an otherwise normal person:

1) Severe substance abuse (to dull the individual's conscience/mask their guilt);
2) "Go and sin no more" symptoms where, while a monster during a war, they go back to being "normal" humans once the external forces are removed.

Finally, I disagree that "most people are capable of some truly horrible things when put into the wrong position." People are put in "wrong positions" a million times a day but very, very rarely does a "normal" (or "most") person do the horrible thing. And if they do, they show remorse and stop the behavior. The remorseless killer who thinks the rules don't apply to him is a sociopath. And those guys aren't born at 50.

I 100% agree that his desire for control is what drove him. "My family, the family..." STFU w/that bs Walt! (Really liked that they had him admit that to Skylar in the end. I think I yelled, "FINALLY!" at the TV in that scene. lol)

EDIT: I should add that remorse after committing atrocities does NOT resolve the person of culpability. I have zero sympathy for the murderers who committed the atrocity (plenty of ppl said, "no thanks" to killing Jews, etc., under pain of death for them/their families). Just trying to point out what the Nazi collaborators did.

And sorry for bringing a Nazi analogy but I took a great class on this topic from the preeminent US prof on the subject in college and it's always stuck w/me.

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Originally Posted by The_Meach

stuff

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Not reading the whole thread, because well. Just started to watch this (Season 2 ep 8). I agree and disagree with Meach. Walt's sociopath ways were hinted at when he talked to Gretchen at the restaurant in Santa Ana (?). Gretchen had a COMPLETELY different viewpoint of his leaving Grey Matter versus Walt viewpoint where he was ADAMANT words WERE spoken.

Hints as well:

• Gretchen and Elliot's wedding - Instead of staying around and talking to people. He took a tour of the library.
• Skylar's baby shower - He seemed detached from even talking to Hank.

I agree though that ...

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Finally, I disagree that "most people are capable of some truly horrible things when put into the wrong position." People are put in "wrong positions" a million times a day but very, very rarely does a "normal" (or "most") person do the horrible thing. And if they do, they show remorse and stop the behavior. The remorseless killer who thinks the rules don't apply to him is a sociopath. And those guys aren't born at 50.

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agree.

I think it's best to look at Walt as an addict. He was addicted to the high he got from running this business, and was ultimately willing to completely compromise his ethics in order to maintain that, much as many addicts often do. The may not be naturally inclined sociopaths, but they behave like them in certain ways.

Cancer, facing death and having no power to stop it, can make a man mean.

I think his main motivation was following the script.

They kept giving him Emmy's every time he did bad things.

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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

Cancer, facing death and having no power to stop it, can make a man mean.

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No, that's gin.

"I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. And, I was really.. I was alive."

/enddiscussion