Oil Companies Questioned

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

You honestly believe all of that? Seriously?
Let's focus on the mortgage "crisis". Please explain how corporate greed led to that one.

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Easy.

People who would have normally qualified for a normal house loan got bumped down to the subprime loans - which meant more money in interest payments to lenders. Hmm, what led to that decision? GREED. Now that's not to say that there weren't a bunch of fucking idiots taking loans they shouldn't have, but there was also a lot of people who should have been given a better deal had it not been for the greedy lenders trying to earn an extra buck by forcing them into a subprime loan.

Look at where the financial windfall these bad loans have taken us. Look at the billions of dollars in write downs the largest financial institutions have made. We lost Bear Stearns, almost lost Countrywide, and if things don't improve dramatically, Citi Group could be the next big institution to take a shit.

I'm more interested in learning why you don't think this wasn't caused by greed, but that's for another thread. I'm bitching about oil companies hrrr.

:wtf:

The problem was caused by lenders giving loans to people who shouldn't have been approved at all. The interest rates were minute. It was just that moronic consumers didn't understand what variable meant. The banks made a horrific business decision in most cases. That's not greed.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

The only danger of pure capitalism is monopolies. As long as competition exists, the consumer can act as the check and balance system better than any government ever will.

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You sound like a some goddamn brainwashed liberal with a statement like that Yoshi.

Anything, left unchecked. will be corruppted. Someone will always find a corner to cut, someone will always find a way to make it benefit them more than it should, someone without any kind of oversight, will always realize they aren't being watched and find a way to cheat it out of themselves.

Ryan's right, unchecked capitalism is simply the promotion and sale of greed. Greed leads to a lot of things politicians and Yoshi don't like to admit it does. But thats ok as long as they don't pay taxes. Which they still do, btw because that mongrel useless Republican congress couldn't get a goddamn thing done in the 6 years of supreme rule they had over this country. When the fuck are you gonna realize btw that your party just like my party, stands for absolutely nothing you claim it too?

When I see a normal average American, defending, (of all fucking things) the oil companies, it makes me sick. Its bad enough when Republicans just defend corporations in general, but seriously the FUCKING OIL COMPANIES?

What exactly do they do for you Yoshi that makes them not subject to any kind of oversight or regulation? Do you like paying 4 bucks a gallon for gas? Is that a trend you'd like to see continue? 5? 6? 7? The problem with greed Yoshi is it has no limit. It gets what it wants. Ryan's right, a greedy society is what we have right now, and no way things like class separation and corporate immunity keep going like this forever.

At some point, people just won't take it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

The only danger of pure capitalism is monopolies. As long as competition exists, the consumer can act as the check and balance system better than any government ever will. Look at alternative energy as an example. People buying hybrids or eco diesels or whatever send the message that car companies need to make those to compete more and more. The government doesn't need to pay for research or regulate. The free market drives the right behavior because the consumer demands it.

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I don't know, Collusion can fuck up that whole "competition" argument if 5 big oil companies agree to not lower their prices, while they make more $$$$ and maintain the illusion of "fair competition".

Sometimes, people just need to be told what to do for the greater good. I demand better fuel economy, but I can't rely on an American car for that. If the American auto makers listened to the consumer's demand for better fuel effeciency, you wouldn't see GM and Ford taking giant shits and selling parts of their company off in order to remain solvent.

I totally agree there with the oil part. I meant monopolies in a more generic way than the literal term. You can't have anyone price fixing, including the government putting caps.

As far as the American auto makers, they have an antiquated manufacturing system that can't compete with the Japanese and they can't afford to overhaul. They're fucked. It has nothing to do with a lack of desire to do the right thing.

I just like to see the big guy get fucked.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I totally agree there with the oil part. I meant monopolies in a more generic way than the literal term. You can't have anyone price fixing, including the government putting caps.

As far as the American auto makers, they have an antiquated manufacturing system that can't compete with the Japanese and they can't afford to overhaul. They're fucked. It has nothing to do with a lack of desire to do the right thing.

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if only they had a almost free labor force so they could dump all their cash into engineering.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

I just like to see the big guy get fucked.

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you know how I know you're gay?

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

if only they had a almost free labor force so they could dump all their cash into engineering.

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lol. That will be the day.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

you know how I know you're gay?

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Not following you here.

Do you like "the big guy's" buttcheeks?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

the consumer can act as the check and balance system better than any government ever will. Look at alternative energy as an example. People buying hybrids or eco diesels or whatever send the message that car companies need to make those to compete more and more.

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It is precisely alternative energy that makes me think government regulation is needed to check the oil companies. Yeah, we have some expensive hybrid cars (that run on oil) decades after the time they should have been put on sale. We have stricter emission standards (for cars that run on oil) way past the time they should have been in place.

But it's too little, it's way late, and everything STILL runs on oil.

In a sane world where there wasn't some huge overwhelming power influencing things, we'd be throwing everything we had at alternative energy. It would be the first, second, and third story every day on the news. At the very least a good chunk of consumer cars would be oil-free by now.

But changing this slowly and moving forward with oil in any way is totally insane. Way, way past "horrible idea" and squarely into lunatic territory. Every stat I've seen says we can't keep expanding the developed world while upping oil production to match. Too lazy to Google right now. Look it up on your own. But the amount we need to consume keeps rising while the amount left keeps falling. In other words, the last 1/2 of oil left on the planet is going to be used up infinitely faster than the first half.

Not only that, but the stuff is way too valuable to be using for fuel. We kinda' need medicine and plastic, ya' know?


And it's not like we're stuck for other energy ideas. They're all sitting right there, waiting on someone to give them the R&D and infrastructure they need.

And it's not like we don't know time is running short. Can't really create a new energy system once the oil runs out since we need the oil to fuel the construction of the new system in the first place.


No, there is some out-of-check power holding this whole thing back. I'm guessing the oil companies are a prime candidate.