Spider-Man Homecoming July 2017

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Their presence added nothing, and if Spider-Man was not already known to the audience as an iconic character, people would have just said "Why the fuck is this guy even here?"

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In an ensemble movie, with a character history that goes back decades, this isn't a problem. It's the goal of 10 years worth of movies.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Spider-Man and Ant-Man felt perhaps the least earned of anyone in that movie. They were just tossed in for fanservice and had no part in the plot at all. Their presence added nothing, and if Spider-Man was not already known to the audience as an iconic character, people would have just said "Why the fuck is this guy even here?"

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Well I mean I think you need to rediscover your inner child a little bit here. Like Yeller said it wasn't a well made movie but it definitely had a lot of fun with Spider-Man and Ant-man!

Most if the issues didn't have to do with the big battle at the end but the scenes leading up to it.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Most if the issues didn't have to do with the big battle at the end but the scenes leading up to it.

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That's the thing, though. I can't invest in the big battle at the end if I don't care about any of the characters. All of the tension in those scenes comes from me as a viewer caring about the outcome, and I just gave zero fucks about every cgi thing on screen unconvincingly smashing into the other cgi things.

I made my girlfriend turn it off after the airport scene (which she promised me would make the slog worth it). I didn't want to see the end. I didn't care. That's BAD, man.

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Originally Posted by Space Pirate Roberts

Citizen Kane is no "Citizen Kane". People have the wrong idea about its significance. No critic actually thinks it's the greatest movie ever made (how sad would it be if it were - that would mean the medium had stagnated for, what, 70 some-odd years?); it's just the first movie that proved movies could be art. (And probably not even REALLY the first, just the first to get attention for it.)

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Citizen Kane is in one of those situations where so many people say it is overrated it is underrated. It's a really great movie. Like all great art it speaks deeply on the human condition. The cinematography is still brilliant. Orson Welles acts with a depth someone so young should not be capable of. Is it the best movie ever? I mean, is there such a thing?

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Good characters only exist in good stories. When those characters do shit for no reason just to set up a "cool matchup" they cease being real characters. Avengers movies feel like watching the story mode from a fighting game. It's all just nonsense to get to the next fight. Iron Man's presence in Spider-Man: Homecoming worked fine, but Spider-Man getting dragged into The Avengers is going to be the end of any remotely interesting stories for Peter Parker.

Likewise, if you tell a good story, you can build a good character. I just finished reading Marvel's recent run of The Vision, and it's one of the best superhero stories I've read. Just in the events of that story alone, it built an amazing character. But in The Avengers, that same character is just a waste of screentime who I'd never have thought twice about.

I saw the new Wonder Woman, and it was very good, but the end bit where they're setting it all up for some inevitably terrible Justice League movie is so disappointing.

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The point of these movies is to watch the next movie.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

That's the thing, though. I can't invest in the big battle at the end if I don't care about any of the characters. All of the tension in those scenes comes from me as a viewer caring about the outcome, and I just gave zero fucks about every cgi thing on screen unconvincingly smashing into the other cgi things.

I made my girlfriend turn it off after the airport scene (which she promised me would make the slog worth it). I didn't want to see the end. I didn't care. That's BAD, man.

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I mean, I get where you're coming from to an extent, but you do realize that even if it wasn't CGI it was still going to be fake right? I know there's a desire for practical effects because they take longer to do and show that people care more or something, but its still fucking fake.

It was so sweet when ant man got all huge for a minute in that fight, and then war machine was all wtf

Or when spider man blocked dude's metal punch and was a smart ass about it.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

That's the thing, though. I can't invest in the big battle at the end if I don't care about any of the characters. All of the tension in those scenes comes from me as a viewer caring about the outcome, and I just gave zero fucks about every cgi thing on screen unconvincingly smashing into the other cgi things.

I made my girlfriend turn it off after the airport scene (which she promised me would make the slog worth it). I didn't want to see the end. I didn't care. That's BAD, man.

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I think we're agreeing here in general but I guess my attitude is the super cameos didn't really drive that problem aside from MAYBE Spider-Man. But like... everyone knows Spideys deal. It just could have used something better than the Sekovia Accord mandate and diabolical long con ex-military guy pulling the strings to do it.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I made my girlfriend turn it off after the airport scene (which she promised me would make the slog worth it). I didn't want to see the end. I didn't care.

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OMG you are a grumpy, joyless bitch. How can she stand being with you?

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Originally Posted by Error

I mean, I get where you're coming from to an extent, but you do realize that even if it wasn't CGI it was still going to be fake right? I know there's a desire for practical effects because they take longer to do and show that people care more or something, but its still fucking fake.

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What I mean here is just that the action isn't good enough to justify anything. There are movies where the action can make up for the story (Baby Driver comes to mind. Fury Road as well). But this isn't that movie.

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

OMG you are a grumpy, joyless bitch. How can she stand being with you?

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Honestly, if I've ever done that before, I can't remember. This one was just that bad.