Affirmative Action? For/Against?

[Schlep]

Originally posted by Calliander
Jennifer Gratz can kiss my grits and apply to another school. With credentials like those, she's got a wide choice of colleges. She wanted to go to UM and got rejected; why didn't she apply to other schools? That doesn't seem like very much effort (a.k.a. busting her ass) if she didn't get accepted to UM and then gave up.

She really wanted to go to UoM more than any other school. My point is that she paid her dues and should've gotten into that school with absolutely 0 resistance on the part of the school. It's widely discussed in that 60 minutes feature how not being white gives you 20 points more on a scale of 150 towards getting in. A great essay gives you 1 point. Perfect SAT is like 16 points if I remember. Sounds pretty damn racist to me.

Also for ShineAqua, it's not the exception, it is the rule. Read the part about the UoM law school admissions where whites had a 2-3% admittance rate, and minorities had a 100% admittance rate with the same scores.

It sounds like spacecowboy wants to just do away with all secondary schools, period. While not a bad idea, heh, there has to be some measure of people's abilities. It's their responsibility to do the best they can in those grades, not for some applications reviewer at a school to let people in who he thinks may turn around and do a good job. I'm sure there's thousands of people from all races that would do a ton better at college than they did in HS, but didn't get into their first college of choice. As someone else said, that's what community colleges are for.

[spacecowboy]

Originally posted by Schlep
It sounds like spacecowboy wants to just do away with all secondary schools, period. While not a bad idea, heh, there has to be some measure of people's abilities. It's their responsibility to do the best they can in those grades, not for some applications reviewer at a school to let people in who he thinks may turn around and do a good job. I'm sure there's thousands of people from all races that would do a ton better at college than they did in HS, but didn't get into their first college of choice. As someone else said, that's what community colleges are for.

Everyone get ready for a prime example of just how unbiased I am. I don't want to get rid of secondary schools, even though I hated high school and will always hate it. I just want better schools. I know it's not just Oklahoma, schools everywhere suck. Schools in Oklahoma can't afford desks, heating, books for everyone, and each grade level gets maybe one crap ass computer from the 1980's. It sucks.

I do feel a little for that girl. If I didn't get to go to OU, where would I have gone? Texas? OSU? No thanks. As a Sooner, it's almost like going against my religion to attend those schools. I can see the other side. Affirmative Action is a quasi-racist program. But I don't see a better way of doing things now. I'm looking forward to the day when we won't need it. But until then we need to promote diversity and strive to get to the level where people aren't black, white or whatever. A level where people are just people.

SC

[Psx]

I think that the optimal circumstances would be for affirmative action to work by awarding points to children based on the school system they went to. ie. if you go to a really wealthy school which can fill all the needs of a modern school you don't get points but if you lived in a poor area where the education was really horrible you do get some extra points

[Schlep]

Originally posted by spacecowboy
Everyone get ready for a prime example of just how unbiased I am. I don't want to get rid of secondary schools, even though I hated high school and will always hate it. I just want better schools. I know it's not just Oklahoma, schools everywhere suck. Schools in Oklahoma can't afford desks, heating, books for everyone, and each grade level gets maybe one crap ass computer from the 1980's. It sucks.

It seems more and more like I got really lucky here, or my parents knew where to be. The school district I went to has, for example, a football stadium for each two schools that has a capacity of about 10,000. The school without the football stadium has a natatorium. The district also had a sponsor in Nortel Networks for computers and electronics, etc. It's strange to me how one district can be so good and others can be so crappy, especially in a state like Texas that has the "Robin Hood" bill. There's just no excuse to me.

[Calliander]

I still don't feel sorry for Ms. Gratz. She can bite my shiny, metal ass. The smart way to apply for college is to have your most-wanted school, some schools you think you have a good shot at, and some safety schools. If you don't get accepted to the school you really wanted, you at least have some schools to fall back on. I'm just referring specifically to her - they either should have provided more info about her or picked someone with a better standing. Who isn't upset when they don't get into the school they want?

But yeah, UM's admissions policies are kind of dodgy. I feel happy when I hear stories like Tom Turner's, but then I see those stats and I'm like, "WTF is up with the admissions?" Damn conflicts of morality.

Originally posted by Psx
I think that the optimal circumstances would be for affirmative action to work by awarding points to children based on the school system they went to. ie. if you go to a really wealthy school which can fill all the needs of a modern school you don't get points but if you lived in a poor area where the education was really horrible you do get some extra points

That would be a cool idea.

But man, the effort involved there in cataloguing every school in America.

Lot of jobs there. Just like the jobs we'd have if we made chauffeurs for people over the age of 60 who are incabable of driving. Hehe.

[Shine]

Originally posted by Kidnemo
To think that people can get scholarships/grants/financial aid because of their ethinic background, not because they are working harder than her angers me beyond belief.

Who are you to judge that a Hispanic that gets a grant because he is a minority didn't work just as hard to earn that grant? Getting grants isn't as simple as walking up to someone and saying "I'm 'Ethnic' now give me money," and walking out with a check. Alot of grants for minorities still require that you do well and give extra special consideration for those who did more than just get good grades and volenteered their time for extracarricular activities. As far as I can tell the problem you're having isn't with the few chances that are given minorities as much as it is with your girlfriends parents and the financial aid policies that assume her parents will help her in paying tuition. If it's such a huge issue for her then she should move out and file as an independant for classes next year. Minorities don't enter into this topic at all.

[Diff-chan]

I wanted to go to Berkeley. Bad. Like... really bad. Its probably impossible for me to explain just how badly I wanted to go there. It was like the golden idol of enlightenment on the other side of the country. While I was wasting away in New Jersey, there was UC-Berkeley, standing tall above the country.

I got accepted to UCLA on April 27th. Woo-hoo! I said. Its a great school, right? Yes! But I was totally confident I would get in here... it was a safety school.

On May 1st I was rejected from Berkeley.

I was crushed. Heartbroken. Seriously. It sounds so stupid but thats where I wanted to go. UCLA was a fucking safety schooL! Blah! I didnt want to go to a safety school. I wanted to go to Berkeley.

But here I am... and those hippies up north can go screw themselves.

Jennifer Gratz should take a hint.

[Kidnemo]

HELLO SHINAQUA!

PERHAPS YOU SHOULD READ MY PREVIOUS POINTS BEFORE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS AND PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH!

I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS SO THAT YOU DO NOT MISS THIS REPLY, AS YOU HAD OBVIOUSLY NOT READ MY PREVIOUS TNL FORUM ENTRIES!

FOLLOWS IS A POINT-BY-POINT BREAK DOWN OF WHAT I SAID PREVIOUSLY, PROVING HOW YOU DID NOT READ MY POSTS.

I ALSO HOPE THAT IN THE FUTURE YOU WILL NOT MAKE IDIOTIC STATEMENTS...AND IF YOU DO THEY ARE NOT DIRECTED AT ME SO THAT I WILL NOT BE FORCED TO REPLY TO YOU IN SUCH A MANNER AS THIS.

HAVE A GOOD DAY AND ENJOY THE REST OF THIS POST!

Originally posted by ShineAqua
Who are you to judge that a Hispanic that gets a grant because he is a minority didn't work just as hard to earn that grant?

1.To think that people can get scholarships/grants/financial aid because of their ethinic background, not because they are working harder than her angers me beyond belief."

2."I have no problem if somebody works harder, give them the scholarships n' stuff."

Getting grants isn't as simple as walking up to someone and saying "I'm 'Ethnic' now give me money," and walking out with a check. Alot of grants for minorities still require that you do well and give extra special consideration for those who did more than just get good grades and volenteered their time for extracarricular activities.

1."Many of the criteria for acceptance into those programs like what I listed above are very quantifiable: ie. extracurricular activities, grades, etc. So it should be very clear which person is achieving more."

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT MANY OF THE SAME GRANTS/INTERNSHIPS/AID/ETC ARE NOT SEPERATE ENTITIES. THAT IS TO SAY EACH GRANT (FOR EXAMPLE) DOES NOT HAVE ONE FOR MINORITIES AND ONE FOR NON-MINORITIES. THEY OVERLAP YOU SEE?

SO TO SAY THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS GIVING AN ADVANTAGE TO ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE OVER ANOTHER WOULD SEEM LIKE THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT IT WAS CREATED FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE WOULD IT NOT!

As far as I can tell the problem you're having isn't with the few chances that are given minorities as much as it is with your girlfriends parents and the financial aid policies that assume her parents will help her in paying tuition.

HELLO AGAIN MY FRIEND! IF YOU COULD PLEASE BE SO KIND AS TO POINT OUT WHERE I SAID THAT I WOULD APPRCIEATE IT!

ALL OF MY PREVIOUS POSTS HAVE CLEARLY CHAMPIONED THE CAUSE: "JUDGE PEOPLE BY THEIR WORK, NOT BY THEIR SKIN COLOR".

If it's such a huge issue for her then she should move out and file as an independant for classes next year. Minorities don't enter into this topic at all.

KIDNEMO HERE AGAIN!

PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ON THINGS YOU DO NOT KNOW! IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, UNTIL YOU ARE 24 (UNLESS YOU ARE MARRIED) YOU ARE REQUIRED BY STATE LAW TO CLAIM YOUR PARENTS IN ANY FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE THAT YOU RECIEVE! REGARDLESS OF CLAIMING "INDEPENDENT STATUS"!

HOOOOORAY!

[Calliander]

Originally posted by Kidnemo
IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, UNTIL YOU ARE 24 (UNLESS YOU ARE MARRIED) YOU ARE REQUIRED BY STATE LAW TO CLAIM YOUR PARENTS IN ANY FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE THAT YOU RECIEVE! REGARDLESS OF CLAIMING "INDEPENDENT STATUS"!

My ears hurt.

That's a wacky law. What do they give as the reason for it?

[Kidnemo]

Originally posted by Calliander
My ears hurt.

That's a wacky law. What do they give as the reason for it?

lol, sorry.

WI expects parents to pay 70% (or more) of their childs college tuition.

So they give tax breaks and stuff assuming all parents do that.

But if the parents don't...well it leads to rants like the above. lol