N'Trouble

**Johnny Nighttrain** · 13 Apr 2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Andrew

Why would they, though? If they're turning a profit on their consoles anyway, and not losing money then they have no reason to change. I think that's why they are so slow to change... why bother when there's a chance they'll lose?

making a profit won't mean shit when they only have 15% of the market. that's not enough to survive.
like i said, they'll just be putting money into something they can't sell. they can expect to lose half of the what they have left of their market share, which is what now? less than 30%? oh yeah, they're gonna gonna make some good profit on the 8 systems they sale. they can't afford to lose any more of their share. they better hope they find a new audience out of nowhere quick.
i think we'll know by the end of the year what Nintendo plans on doing in the future. i think 2003(and the beginning of 04) is the year that Nintendo finds out if all their investments were worth it.
if RE, Crystal Chronicles, Metal Gear, and pretty much all the great stuff coming out this year don't increase sales, they're fucked come next generation unless like i said, they do a complete 180 and get lucky.

**DarkCrow676** · 13 Apr 2003, 05:45 PM

I think that even if Nintendo does do a 180 and becomes more like Sony and Xbox that it wont make a difference. Alot of people think that Nintendo sucks and is just for kids and they will always be like that. I like Nintendo they way it is now but there are people out there that think owning a Nintendo is "gay". A lot of the gamers I know outside of the boards could care less if Nintendo "grew up". With the way our society is close minded and materialistic, it almost seems that Nintendo will be doomed to fail, which I hope is not the case.

**Scourge** · 13 Apr 2003, 07:00 PM

I think there's something larger at work here that is being ignored. And it's beyond the "kiddie" image. With the shift from an industry dominated by Japanese developed games to one dominated by US developed games and major inroads by European developers, it hardly matters the focus of the Corporation when it's the focus of the consumer that is driving the market.

Sony isn't riding high on the hog with first party titles. Sure GTA didn't make them, but with the runaway successes of 3 and Vice City and with all the imitators that followed, the consumer focus that was split in the 32 bit war between those with their apron strings still tied by mother Nintendo and those that jumped ship for the shiny disc and games with blood has gelled with today's developers using technological advances to continue to move toward games with higher realism. And those developers by and large are copping PC-centric attitudes.

The higher the complexity of the technology, the more complex the games get and the more complex the userbase and their needs/wants grow. Why are shmups a stone age artifact? Why do platformers have to be debated as to whether or not they are viable anymore? Or whether or not they can even be considered platformers anymore?

So there are three things at work: 1) games are more complex, 2) the userbase is older and more complex and 3) the developers of the most complex games are perceived to be North America and Europe, where the focus is on more PC-centric gaming experiences and sports games. Where does this leave Nintendo? Out in the cold.

It's not Nintendo's problem, it's the Japanese Industry's problem. There needs to be a consortium of developers that takes an in depth look at what has happened to cause the big shift from Japan to elsewhere in the mindshare of the world industry, and if Nintendo wants to really be on the cusp of the next big thing, they need to head the consortium. They've been making steps of sorts to do this with key partnerships like that with Capcom, but they need make it a primary focus.

Nintendo needs to use some of that capital and those profits to try to make up ground between Japan and the other regions, not just Nintendo and Sony/Microsoft. One thing they've done recently was to reduce licensing fees, which is nice, but that's probably the smallest thing they could have possibly done to attract developers. They've obviously been working on capturing some exclusive deals with Capcom, Square Enix, Konami, and Sega, but they should also be looking at EA as many have suggested.

Not only should they be looking for exclusively developed games, but they could go the old Square route of having EA publish titles for NA for the Gamecube, where Nintendo starts to cultivate a lot of stuff that gets released in Japan but never sees the light of day in NA. This may not be the biggest thing to hit the US, but it would open up the floodgates a bit to more exclusive content in the US and have the EA brand that the American public seems to love so much more than Nintendo's. We'd start seeing more niche titles which would cater more to hardcore gamers and we'd see some of those not so niche titles that for whatever reason, Nintendo chooses not to publish for the American consumer.

Also, the lag between Japanese release of Japanese developed games and NA/Europe/Australia releases needs to stop. Nintendo could really set a new standard if they took some of their resources and applied them to getting all of their key partners as well as themselves to make all games non-region specific from the get go. And by non-region specific, I don't mean able to be played on US/Japan and European machines; I mean worldwide release of games on the same day, without delaying the initial release. This would certainly not do much for 2003, but it could make a big impression for 2004 and going into the next generation.

So what do these three things amount to? More games on the shelves, more exclusive content, and content that is there faster and looks different than their competitors. Then they need to market the hell out of it. If they are going to change the minds of American and European consumers, they need to show them what they are missing. At this point, they aren't missing much, since a) hot titles trickle in, b) a lot of the "hot" titles look like they're made for 8 year olds, and c) everything else is available on PS2 or Xbox.

**MechDeus** · 13 Apr 2003, 08:26 PM

You also need a crack pipe. And crack. A lot of it.

Only for single-player. And a mute button. I swear to God those fucking mosquitos are the most annoying-sounding enemy in the history of videogames... and if there's anything worse I don't want to know about it.

That's not true. I don't like Time Splitters 2, therefore playing Time Splitters 2 is not fun for me, regardless of how many people are playing.

Then you should either try livelier friends or not focus on doing so well in the game. I actually had fun playing Tao Feng with some friends, even if most of the time was us making fun of the game and someone else trying her hardest to act drunker than she really was. I've found that enough friends gathered around, talking shit, and screwing around can make almost anything interesting.

Except the Star Wars Holiday Special. Even with a group of six of us I still had the intense urge to doze off.

I'm not saying Smash Bros. is an excellent game, and I can certainly see why some people would call it simplistic, but it's still fun to play, and I like having fun.

I thought it was fun at first, but that wore off after a few gatherings when I started to really try and learn it. It was sort of a "the more I learned, the less interesting it became" kind of deal. A lot of other non-gamer people I know find it quite fun, although since I'm generally far better than them I just do stupid things like play as Kirby and do nothing but swallow people to help level off the field.

**CorruptedOldGnom(sic)** · 13 Apr 2003, 08:30 PM

Scourge makes an excellent point. The video game industry is losing its identity and becoming more and more similar to PC gaming. Personally, I think this is a sad sad thing. For the most part I don't like Western-made games, "If it ain't Jap it's most likely crap" is my motto. The fact that sidescrollers are all but dead makes me want to cry. Japanese games don't cut it with the general public anymore, and I think it's Japanese developers that really gave video games their own unique character or essence. Now it seems like that's fading. If Nintendo wants to make it big anymore they'll probably have to cut deals with some big-name Western devcos. Or they could change their own games to be more Western in style, but that would be truly hideous and I would never forgive them for it. I'm really disappointed with the direction gaming is going in, and I'm afraid it's going to get worse. I really hope some kind of underground game development scene pops up, because the industry itself is going to shit. Help us homebrew gaming, you're our only hope!

**gamevet** · 13 Apr 2003, 08:52 PM

Good points Scourge!

Not only are the N.America and European titles taking a larger market share in the US, but they are starting to make headway in Japan as well. EA's - Medal of Honor cracked the top 10 in Japan for the month of November 2002.

I think the best way that Nintendo can gain marketshare in the next wave of console, is to have someone else manufacture and market the system as their own. There have been rumors of such an idea coming from Nintendo and it may be what they need to do.

When Sony released the first Playstation, they already were known as a cutting edge electronics company. Adult consumers could relate to buying a gaming console with a name like Sony backing it. The Xbox is also benefiting from the MS name, as many people using PC's already know them as a serious adult oriented software company. The Nintendo name however, is always thought of as the game machine I played when I was a kid.

**Mamoscott** · 13 Apr 2003, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by Scourge
A long post.

If consumers want more complex, PC-type games and developers, why is the PC gaming industry in the shithole that it currently is? And why then is the Game Boy Advance thriving on primarily ports of old 16 (or even 8) bit titles and 2-D side scrollers/action games?

And since when do people love the EA brand more than Nintendo?

The console gaming industry is changing dramatically, because Microsoft and Sony want to control your living room. They're interested in gaining market share/brand loyalty, so the Sony Playstation 4 (or the Xbox 3) can be your one stop for all your home entertainment needs, an all-in-one cable box/DVD player/game system/tivo/etc. And then of course you're going to want to buy a Sony television for the best results/compatibility and various other Sony electronics that will no doubt work in conjuction with future Playstation systems.

Nintendo just wants to make games. As long as they stay profitable and make great games, I don't think they'll go anywhere.

If things keep going the way they are, Nintendo will eventually be catering to one market (people who want a dedicated gaming system), while MS and Sony will be fighting over everyone else (unless one of them decides to drop out of the race for some reason).

**Johnny Nighttrain** · 13 Apr 2003, 09:15 PM

how can so many of you ignore that Nintendo loses just about half of their market share with every new console they make?
they'll have a shit load of money lying around, but they won't be a profitable company anymore. well, as far as console sales go that is. well, im sure they'll make profit on whatever they make, but they're gonna have a hell of a hard time selling it that's for sure.

**Chojin** · 13 Apr 2003, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by MechDeus
Only for single-player. And a mute button. I swear to God those fucking mosquitos are the most annoying-sounding enemy in the history of videogames... and if there's anything worse I don't want to know about it.

Don't forget you can't leave without your buddy Superfly. Yes I'm spamming.