Matrix Reloaded

[Regus]

You know, so far, I've yet to hear a valid complaint about this movie that I can agree with, with the exeption of the Zion orgy's length, everything else is just sounding like whiny bitching and nitpicking to me.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
*looks at Matrix pictures*

When I saw this in the theater, I did not notice nearly that much green, although I do know they used a green filter. Odd. It all looked compleatly normal to me, and now these captures look green.

that's because you didn't have anything to contrast it to when you were in the theatre. here, the blue background allows you to see it a lot better.

Originally posted by Regus
You know, so far, I've yet to hear a valid complaint about this movie that I can agree with, with the exeption of the Zion orgy's length, everything else is just sounding like whiny bitching and nitpicking to me.

looks at despair.

[Despair]

Well, Those are my own, personal complains. They might not look valid to you, but they quite valid to me. You have the right to not agree with me, and I'm not trying to change your feeling about MR in any way.

[burgundy]

Originally posted by Regus
You know, so far, I've yet to hear a valid complaint about this movie that I can agree with, with the exeption of the Zion orgy's length, everything else is just sounding like whiny bitching and nitpicking to me.

Two other minor complaints:

The montage-like scenes that showed the prep for the run on the Core were terribly paced IMO. More time should have been set aside for the prep scenes. I had no idea that the Core run would be resolved in Reloaded, and the montage scenes came off as a sort of trailer for Revolutions. They really took me out of the movie after the excellent freeway scene.

I also don't know why the Ghosts bothered to chase Neo down on the freeway. Sure, they wanted the Keymaker back, but at the expense of exposing themselves to the Agents and risking the Keymaker's deletion? They should have cut their losses. And why have Ghosts out in broad daylight?

[Regus]

The montage-like scenes that showed the prep for the run on the Core were terribly paced IMO. More time should have been set aside for the prep scenes. I had no idea that the Core run would be resolved in Reloaded, and the montage scenes came off as a sort of trailer for Revolutions. They really took me out of the movie after the excellent freeway scene.

I don't remember this at all, so I can't comment on it until I see the movie again. If you're talking about the destruction of the Power Plant, well, you have to play Enter the Matrix to get the whole picture.

I also don't know why the Ghosts bothered to chase Neo down on the freeway. Sure, they wanted the Keymaker back, but at the expense of exposing themselves to the Agents and risking the Keymaker's deletion? They should have cut their losses. And why have Ghosts out in broad daylight?

Well, I can't really explain why they went after the Key Maker, other than they were ordered to, as for the day light comment, they're not really ghosts, in the way we would consider a disembodied soul wandering around a mansion or something, see:

Oracle: Of course you have. Every time you’ve heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you’ve ever heard about vampires, were-wolves or aliens it’s the system assimilating some program that’s doin’ somethin’ they’re not supposed to be doin’.

Whos to say ghosts can exist in the real world, if all we know about them are the explinations of people who tried to rationalize the behavior of a rouge program.

[burgundy]

Originally posted by Regus
I don't remember this at all, so I can't comment on it until I see the movie again. If you're talking about the destruction of the Power Plant, well, you have to play Enter the Matrix to get the whole picture.

BZZZZZZZZZ! WRONG ANSWER!

I know it isn't your idea, but I cringe every time someone tells me to buy a $50 game so I can understand an $8 movie. If a scene doesn't make sense based solely on the film material, that scene is badly flawed.

Whos to say ghosts can exist in the real world, if all we know about them are the explinations of people who tried to rationalize the behavior of a rouge program.

Fair enough, but I don't see the point of referring to them as ghosts if they defy the fairly well-accepted rules of ghosts. Werewolves, after all, adhered to the silver bullet mythos. Granted that light isn't a bane to ghosts in the same way it is to vampires, for instance, I just thought it was odd that two ghosts were chasing down Keymaker in broad daylight and in full view of the authorities.

[Regus]

Oh shit, I just watched the first film again, and I caught a lot of great stuff I never noticed before.

Okay, first off, check out the interegation scene between Smith and Neo in the begining of the movie. Before they go into that little room, Neo can be seen on a bunch of little monitors, can this be the architect watching him?!?

Again, Did you REALLY thought they would kill such an important character as Trinity or Morpheus? Not a chance in Hell.

Ah, but when Neo meets the Oracle in the first film, she explictly tells him, in regard to Morpheous:

"He believes in you so much, that he is going to sacrafice his life in order to save yours. You're going to have to make a choice, in one hand you have his life, in the other your own. One of you is going to die, which one, will be up to you."

Sure, you could infer that she means that Neo is going to die at the end of the film, but we all know that Neo did not die, so that still leaves the door open for Morpheous' death.


Another little forshadowing thing I noticed, is when Tank is overseeing Neo's training, Morpeous comes up and asks how he's doing, and Tank says:

"Ten hours straight, he's a machine."





I also like how the films really are all about choices, just look at all the ones placed before Neo in the first film.

- Go with the white rabbit girl, or stay home.
- Choose to be at this desk on time, or find another job.
- Help out the agents and have his record cleared.
- Follow Trinity's instuctions in the car, or as Switch put it: "It's our way or the High Way"
- Blue pill or Red pill.

All these things could have detered him from becoming the one, had he chosen otherwise.




You know, it's funny, I always knew there was something more to these films, but it wasn't until reloaded that I started to look so much deeper into these things. And to think there are people out there that say these movies lack depth.

[Will]

Originally posted by Regus
Oh shit, I just watched the first film again, and I caught a lot of great stuff I never noticed before.

Okay, first off, check out the interegation scene between Smith and Neo in the begining of the movie. Before they go into that little room, Neo can be seen on a bunch of little monitors, can this be the architect watching him?!?



Ah, but when Neo meets the Oracle in the first film, she explictly tells him, in regard to Morpheous:

"He believes in you so much, that he is going to sacrafice his life in order to save yours. You're going to have to make a choice, in one hand you have his life, in the other your own. One of you is going to die, which one, will be up to you."

Sure, you could infer that she means that Neo is going to die at the end of the film, but we all know that Neo did not die, so that still leaves the door open for Morpheous' death.


Another little forshadowing thing I noticed, is when Tank is overseeing Neo's training, Morpeous comes up and asks how he's doing, and Tank says:

"Ten hours straight, he's a machine."





I also like how the films really are all about choices, just look at all the ones placed before Neo in the first film.

- Go with the white rabbit girl, or stay home.
- Choose to be at this desk on time, or find another job.
- Help out the agents and have his record cleared.
- Follow Trinity's instuctions in the car, or as Switch put it: "It's our way or the High Way"
- Blue pill or Red pill.

All these things could have detered him from becoming the one, had he chosen otherwise.




You know, it's funny, I always knew there was something more to these films, but it wasn't until reloaded that I started to look so much deeper into these things. And to think there are people out there that say these movies lack depth.

Watching it again after a while on DVD(finally!) I agree. Also one of the reasons why I thought it was better than Reloaded. I wish Marcus Chong was in it though, he had an air of innocence and charisma to his character that I thought was better than Link.

[MechDeus]

In regards to the Matrix within the Matrix:

1.) Neo is the first anomaly to ever refuse Zion. You know that's going to make waves.
2.) Neo states, "Something's different," but he says nothing about it feeling the same.
3.) If it was another Matrix, why would it adhere to the same rules as the first? Wouldn't that be too limiting?
4.) In Enter the Matrix (after Neo passes out), the Oracle says, "Neo's soul is stuck halfway between the real world and the Matrix."
5.) It's Alice leaving Wonderland finding herself in the tornado to Oz which leads to the future where she can save Marty McFly. It's so convuluted and stupid, doing that would be pathetically horrible.

Now, to start something else: Notice the Merovingian. See the way he dresses, how he's survived from Matrix to Matrix, surpassing the other anomalies but also collecting previous code. All the way up to Persephone telling Neo how the Merovingian used to be like him, and the Merovingian is surprised at what Neo knows. Obviously, Neo is far superior to all the ones which came before, but as the rumor mill in my house goes: Is the Merovingian the original One? Written as a program to try and contain the inevitable anomaly.

Personally, I would say no because of the Zion/Matrix choice, but they wouldn't tell Neo if the original didn't have that choice. Food for thought, anyway.

I know it isn't your idea, but I cringe every time someone tells me to buy a $50 game so I can understand an $8 movie. If a scene doesn't make sense based solely on the film material, that scene is badly flawed.

I had no problems with that scene. It confused me a bit at first, but once I caught on that they were flitting around time frames I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. It did become more fleshed out once I played the game, but I saw the movie twice before I found a copy on the 15th.

Originally posted by Regus
Ah, but when Neo meets the Oracle in the first film, she explictly tells him, in regard to Morpheous:

"He believes in you so much, that he is going to sacrafice his life in order to save yours. You're going to have to make a choice, in one hand you have his life, in the other your own. One of you is going to die, which one, will be up to you."

Sure, you could infer that she means that Neo is going to die at the end of the film, but we all know that Neo did not die, so that still leaves the door open for Morpheous' death.

You're forgetting Morpheous' comment later on: "She told you exactly what you needed to hear." That comment was as true as her telling Neo that he wasn't the One. It was designed as a "jump-start" of sorts to get Neo into the situations and mindset needed for him to progress.

All these things could have detered him from becoming the one, had he chosen otherwise.

Ah, but the choices were already made.

[burgundy]

Originally posted by Regus
Ah, but when Neo meets the Oracle in the first film, she explictly tells him, in regard to Morpheous:

"He believes in you so much, that he is going to sacrafice his life in order to save yours. You're going to have to make a choice, in one hand you have his life, in the other your own. One of you is going to die, which one, will be up to you."

Sure, you could infer that she means that Neo is going to die at the end of the film, but we all know that Neo did not die, so that still leaves the door open for Morpheous' death.

I was debating this very point with Tron while watching the original this evening. You can either accept or reject Neo's "death." But if you reject it, the Oracle's prophecy still must be fulfilled. Unless she was lying, but then she loses all credibility.

I also like how the films really are all about choices, just look at all the ones placed before Neo in the first film.

- Go with the white rabbit girl, or stay home.
- Choose to be at this desk on time, or find another job.
- Help out the agents and have his record cleared.
- Follow Trinity's instuctions in the car, or as Switch put it: "It's our way or the High Way"
- Blue pill or Red pill.

All these things could have detered him from becoming the one, had he chosen otherwise.

But Neo also chose to surrender to the Agents rather than escape to the roof. Clearly, his path to "Onehood" isn't as linear as it may seem.

Originally posted by MechDeus
You're forgetting Morpheous' comment later on: "She told you exactly what you needed to hear." That comment was as true as her telling Neo that he wasn't the One. It was designed as a "jump-start" of sorts to get Neo into the situations and mindset needed for him to progress.

That's not enough. If the Oracle can flat-out lie just to manipulate Neo, so can the Architect, if they are really central to the Matrix. And if the Architect can lie, that makes Neo's choice in the Core both meaningless and unnecessary.