Learning to hate PGR

[BioMechanic]

Metropolis Street Racer on DC is one of my favorite games, so I was quite anticipating the upgraded big brother, Project Gotham Racing. I've only had my Xbox since January, and the first game I bought was PGR.

But now, after almost completing it, I've found it practically unplayable, and also think MSR is on all counts superior. I don't think it's because I suck at the game. Here is why:

1) The new Kudos system. It's way too touchy. Pull off a nice chain, that's all well and good, but one tiny tiny touch on anything and you can forget it. It can even be such a small hit that the game won't penalize you for a clean section bonus, yet it's enough to break your chain. Plus I prefer the more isolated Kudos system of MSR - yes, you could lose Kudos, true, but it also rewarded you a little at a time instead of costing you the total of an entire chain. MSR did allow you to rack up huge Kudos in certain races (Hot Lap anyone?), but the game became less about Kudos as it progressed.

2) The Medal system. MSR's method of you setting your own rewards made more sense overall.

3) The AI. PGR's harder Street Races seem to be more a matter of luck than skill. If you fall behind, you will NOT catch up, because the AI drives perfectly. And since you start in 6th place, getting into first is a crapshoot at the courses' first turn: if you manage to emerge from the pileup in first place, great - but it's more due to luck than careful placement. Also all five AI will go out of their way to make you spin out instead of going after each other. MSR was hard in parts, but PGR seems even further balanced against the player. MSR made me become a skilled driver, but PGR doesn't seem to require the same skills.

4) The soundtrack. MSR's beloved soundtrack is legendary. Seriously, having licensed stations and songs in PGR takes away from the uniqueness of MSR.

5) New York City. I think the NYC tracks don't have the personality of London, Tokyo, or San Francisco - not even close. The Central Park tracks are insane.

6) The car selection. Now you can pick any car any time. I liked MSR's 3-car garage better - it made you be more careful, especially when you took a Kudos hit whenever you dumped a car. Plus now you only get one license plate for all cars. A small detail, sure, but it makes the game a little less personal, I think.

7) The unique time-based challenges. MSR had certain races that required you to race during a specific time period. Not PGR. It seems MSR paid more attention to the DC's internal clock.

I'm glad PGR sold well, but in my eyes, the changes from the classic MSR really damage the gameplay - much like I view JGR vs. JSRF, in fact.

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by BioMechanic
1) The new Kudos system. It's way too touchy. Pull off a nice chain, that's all well and good, but one tiny tiny touch on anything and you can forget it. It can even be such a small hit that the game won't penalize you for a clean section bonus, yet it's enough to break your chain. Plus I prefer the more isolated Kudos system of MSR - yes, you could lose Kudos, true, but it also rewarded you a little at a time instead of costing you the total of an entire chain. MSR did allow you to rack up huge Kudos in certain races (Hot Lap anyone?), but the game became less about Kudos as it progressed.

I prefer PGR's overall. There's nothing wrong with losing a combo by hitting something.

2) The Medal system. MSR's method of you setting your own rewards made more sense overall.

That doesn't really matter to me.

3) The AI. PGR's harder Street Races seem to be more a matter of luck than skill. If you fall behind, you will NOT catch up, because the AI drives perfectly. And since you start in 6th place, getting into first is a crapshoot at the courses' first turn: if you manage to emerge from the pileup in first place, great - but it's more due to luck than careful placement. Also all five AI will go out of their way to make you spin out instead of going after each other. MSR was hard in parts, but PGR seems even further balanced against the player. MSR made me become a skilled driver, but PGR doesn't seem to require the same skills.

Yes and no - you're still faster than them, so you can get ahead even if you're not leading after the first turn. But it does suck how they target you and nobody else.

4) The soundtrack. MSR's beloved soundtrack is legendary. Seriously, having licensed stations and songs in PGR takes away from the uniqueness of MSR.

Ugh. No way. MSR's soundtrack, while a fun idea, was one of the worst I can ever remember in any game. I hated almost all of it. I mean, if I don't like the real Rick Astley, square dance music or hair metal, why would I want to listen to cheesy fake versions of it? And even if you don't like PGR's selection, you can use the custom soundtrack feature. PGR is way ahead on this one.

5) New York City. I think the NYC tracks don't have the personality of London, Tokyo, or San Francisco - not even close. The Central Park tracks are insane.

I guess. They're all so difficult I never race them unless I have to.

6) The car selection. Now you can pick any car any time. I liked MSR's 3-car garage better - it made you be more careful, especially when you took a Kudos hit whenever you dumped a car. Plus now you only get one license plate for all cars. A small detail, sure, but it makes the game a little less personal, I think.

Okay, but in exchange you get a better selection of vehicles. Why would you trade a Ferrari F-50 for the fact that MSR only lets you carry 3 at a time?

7) The unique time-based challenges. MSR had certain races that required you to race during a specific time period. Not PGR. It seems MSR paid more attention to the DC's internal clock.

I'd imagine they took it out because it was an inconvenience to people who could only play at certain times of the day.

I'm glad PGR sold well, but in my eyes, the changes from the classic MSR really damage the gameplay - much like I view JGR vs. JSRF, in fact.

I don't. But I do think PGR suffers from a ridiculous drop in draw distance in split screen and tracks that are almost too narrow to navigate, making your first 25 races on them an excercise in frustration. This almost never gets played anymore, and when it's time for multiplayer, Rallisport is almost invariably the Xbox racer of choice.

[Low]

I agree with you fully Bio. I played the game for about 10 hours before I grew tired of it. MSR is my favorite racer and though PGR's graphics were wonderful, the refined Kudos system wasn't to my liking. People bitched that you had to redo races in MSR to gain a few more points each time. This was mainly true in the first chapters and it made you a better driver, don't know about anyone else but I jumped at the chance to restart races, to beat my old score/time.

Also the selection of cars. I appreciate some of the names MS got into PGR, but they seemed like a hodge-podge of uber-expensive sports cars and quirky vechicles like the coop. MSR's intial selection of vechicles fit the street racing aspect a bit more and you are right, the limited garage space made you become more familiar with the car you choose.

As for music, I think MSR's soundtrack is picked on too much, the country tunes were annoying but there's some great music here. Some of the PGR's music is annoying, I love the Chemical Brothers, but when thier Afrika track kicks in...it just seemed misplaced. The custom soundtrack is a big plus though.

The original game is far too over looked. *-neo

[Wildkat]

I think it just gets too damn hard to damn fast.

Then at one point you get stuck with the slowest car on the street and need to Gold to advance any.

Its why I gave up playing it.

[BioMechanic]

Very interesting points, Strider. Thanks for posting.

It seems to me in PGR that your opponents will actually change depending on what car you select, thus kind of negating any vehicular advantage - the AI just gets "worse." I ended up using one of the default cars on the very hard Quick Race mode.

I think the MSR soundtrack is pure tongue-in-cheek gold comedy cheese, and fit perfectly with the laughably fake radio adverts and DJs. Even the less ridiculous Tokyo techno tracks oozed sarcasm. I consider it one of the best game soundtracks ever, especially since I'm a big fan of black British comedy. But I certainly understand how it might offend. Custom soundtracking is great, but in my mind it can't replace the uniqueness of MSR's phake raydeeo (I bet the Tokyo announcers are saying hilarious things too).

You could always adjust the DC's internal clock to the needed time - the time requirement added to the strategy of the races. A night race in London would be done completely differently than a daytime downpour. In PGR, you could always anticipate that the Total Lap Time races would automatically be in the rain, regardless of city.

...when it's time for multiplayer, Rallisport is almost invariably the Xbox racer of choice.

Not to jack my own thread, but how's the single-player? I think the Xbox controller (the original behemoth, believe it or not) is the best for racing games that I've ever used.

[Diff-chan]

I totally disagree with this thread! Project Gotham Racing is amazing. Best racer EVAR! And PGR2 > Life.

[Adrian]

I sold my copy recently, not my bag. Still i'm keeping an eye out on PGR2 but Rallisport 2 interests me more: I played the demo of the original and quite like it.

[MVS]

Great game, pretty tough, but great game. 9/10.

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by BioMechanic
I think the MSR soundtrack is pure tongue-in-cheek gold comedy cheese, and fit perfectly with the laughably fake radio adverts and DJs. Even the less ridiculous Tokyo techno tracks oozed sarcasm. I consider it one of the best game soundtracks ever, especially since I'm a big fan of black British comedy. But I certainly understand how it might offend. Custom soundtracking is great, but in my mind it can't replace the uniqueness of MSR's phake raydeeo (I bet the Tokyo announcers are saying hilarious things too).

Sure, like I said, it's a fun idea. I just didn't find myself laughing out loud at it too often, and the rest of the time I was listening to bad music. But I understand why some people dig it.

The Tokyo announcers didn't say anything too funny that I recall (except for a few mistakes, since they weren't native speakers).

You could always adjust the DC's internal clock to the needed time - the time requirement added to the strategy of the races. A night race in London would be done completely differently than a daytime downpour. In PGR, you could always anticipate that the Total Lap Time races would automatically be in the rain, regardless of city.

I guess. I can see why the developers still felt that manipulating the internal clock was a step they should make gemers have to take (which is what I ended up doing anyway, heh).

Not to jack my own thread, but how's the single-player? I think the Xbox controller (the original behemoth, believe it or not) is the best for racing games that I've ever used.

It's brutally hard until you get used to it. If you just barrel along you'll fly off the track constantly until you learn how to read the different road surfaces, and one or two mistakes can cost you a race. Many of your wins will come as a result of having a faster car than the competition.

That said, it's incredibly satisfying once you get the tracks down - it's certainly possible. And I have 3 friends who own the game as well; knowing the tracks for multiplayer is good motivation for playing through the one player game. They're all mainstream gamers but still felt compelled to play through, if that means anything.

Still, I might hold off for the online Rallisport 2 later this year, where you'll always have human competition.