"Iranian Protesters Remain Resolute"

[Abobo]

Back to the main post....my mother and brother just returned from a month long trip to Iran. Being Iranian myself, I wish I could have gone...work and and other prior commitments forced me to stay. I havn't been to Iran in 20 years, but from what my brother, who is 23, has told me...Iran has become a fantastic place to visit and see. He tells me that 90% of the people DISPISE the government and if they were given the chance, they would string up the mullas by their balls. Hatred for the government and Islam for that matter has grown to an unbelievalbe hight. The entire youth population, which is 70% of the population of Iran (less than 30 years of age), is totally disenfranchised with Islam. They want to be free to think, wear what they want, listen to what they want, and do as they please.

Talk to any young person in Iran, and they will run rings around any young person in America when it comes to politics in Iran and the world. Iran right now is on the verge of exploding. These small demonstartions are a precursor to the "Big One", July 9th 2003. It is the date set for a nationwide general strike. This is the set date of the anniversary of the demonstartions of 1999. The only think hold back the students from totally overthrowing the governement is the lack of a leader, a voice if you will. Someone with the charisma and focus to gather everyone for one main cause. They don't have a Martin Luther King, or Vaklav Havel (sp?). Ask the average person on the street and they will tell you that they love the US and would love to have the US help them.

What they don't want is direct US intervention, like Iraq or Afghanistan. They have already been screwed by the US three times. Iran can change easily from the Inside, there is no need for bombs to be dropped or sanctions to be imposed. Watch the news around July 9th....something big is going to happen. Oh and mark my words...a free Iran will change the world. If Iran is free....I would say that within 5 years Al-Quadia and the the problems in Isreal/Palestine would also be fixed. Iran is the 800 pound gorrila, free Iran and the rest will follow.

[Stone]

Originally posted by Abobo
What they don't want is direct US intervention, like Iraq or Afghanistan. They have already been screwed by the US three times. Iran can change easily from the Inside, there is no need for bombs to be dropped or sanctions to be imposed. Watch the news around July 9th....something big is going to happen. Oh and mark my words...a free Iran will change the world. If Iran is free....I would say that within 5 years Al-Quadia and the the problems in Isreal/Palestine would also be fixed. Iran is the 800 pound gorrila, free Iran and the rest will follow.

I think you're right Abobo - and, don't know if it was clear, but I was being sarcastic about the cowboy-direct-intervention stuff earlier in this post.

I think what real Iranians need is the knowledge that US has its back. We're there for them, we'll help them rebuild once the mullahs are down, and so on.

And, you're right about a free Iran changing the world - a free Iran will have the effect we were hoping to achieve in Iraq, that sort of cascading "hey, if they have peace, why don't we?" thing in the Middle East.

I dunno, I'm excited, and I believe our government is going to give the Iranians the kind of help it needs (and not give it the kind of help it doesn't want.)

Originally posted by Almaci
To talk about Hitler and democracy in a single sentance is sickening, the guy rose to power thanks to some seriously antidemocratic actions and putting fear in the harts of Germans and death to others.

Originally posted by Almaci
after overturning a democraticaly elected progresive government that wasnt to the liking of the US.

The Nazi party was voted in - so was that "democratically elected progressive government". Nazism went awry, and so did that "democratically elected progressive government". That government you're defending used "seriously antidemocratic actons", and, yes, at the time of the CIA coup it was heavily influenced by the Tudeh (I think that's the name), who were pro-Soviet.

At times, the difference between a "democratically elected progressive government" you'd support, and something like Nazism, is a sweet little CIA coup.

[Abobo]

Stone, yup...all the Iranian people want from the US is to know that the US has their back. That's it. Although I like the fact that Bush makes comments here and there...I just wish that they would be a bit more vocal with their support. I think if the entire Bush cabinet were more vocal...Powel, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc...I think it would get more press. This is one of the "Axis of Evil" countries afterall. It's strange how it doesn't get more press. Why is that? Isn't it a big deal that this is happening? Sadly all the press seems to focus on is the whole Nuke thing. Yeah, I know it's all about scareing people.."ooh they are evil they have nukes". But if the American people saw what the Iranian people wanted, they could show their support even more...which would even encourage the students to take more action. It's all a big circle. Sometimes it's so easy, I wonder why things are the way they are....

[Stone]

It's going to happen, I think, the Iranian revolution being publicized in the US media. It's a good story, for one, and just today I've read in two other places US editorialists mentioning this July 9th anniversary, talking about its importance, prepping people for it.

Basically, the conservative media machine is going to take hold of news of this event and run with it (I believe), and that should make a huge difference. Within a couple of weeks people are going to be hearing about it on the news stations, it'll be the first story on the O'Reilly Factor, and we'll move from there.

Americans are not fundamentally interventionist - we'd much, much rather see Iran free itself than have to go over there on our own. We're in a pro-democracy pro-seeing-change-in-the-Middle-East mood, even if we're tired of war. Americans just need to hear more about it, and they'll be behind the Iranians 100%.

Originally posted by Tracer
Your Us vs Them attitude bites. Same with Ali. You both suck.

It is Us vs. Them. There's a country fighting for its freedom against an evil theocratic tyranny on the other side of the world, people we, "us", need to remember and support, and they, the "them", are bitching about some CIA coup that happened 50 years ago.

[NightWolve]

Originally posted by Almaci
To talk about Hitler and democracy in a single sentance is sickening, the guy rose to power thanks to some seriously antidemocratic actions and putting fear in the harts of Germans and death to others.

If you had done a google search (sp?), you would've found he was democratically elected chancellor of Germany in 1933. Sure, afterwards, he established a police force to crush all opposition. But, that was not at all what I cared about, it's the fact the statement "a democratically elected progressive leader that wasn't to the liking of the US" can and does apply to him as well as other despots... The reason I raise a suspicious eyebrow at it, is cause Noam Chomsky made a somewhat similar statement in some LINK TV documentary I saw. Naturally, since I'm critical of Chopsky, I had to wonder what information exactly is being left out, since I guess with just that statement alone I'm supposed to have made positive connotations with the words 'democratically', 'elected' and 'progressive' and negative ones with the rest (implying a bad judgement when it comes to the US' dislikes). Sure enough, I look on the Internet to refute what Chopsky was talking about and find it was in referenece to some Marxist in whatever Latin country is undergoing leftist subversion... So, um, yeah, the point was that statement will forever remain tainted in my mind . I would need a very convincing argument as to WHY the US was wrong in disliking that government/leader to add proper context - not to mention a definition of "progressive"...

Originally posted by Abobo
Iran can change easily from the Inside, there is no need for bombs to be dropped or sanctions to be imposed. Watch the news around July 9th....something big is going to happen. Oh and mark my words...a free Iran will change the world. If Iran is free....I would say that within 5 years Al-Quadia and the the problems in Isreal/Palestine would also be fixed. Iran is the 800 pound gorrila, free Iran and the rest will follow.

Yeah, I mean, I believe that was apart of the auxiliary goals with this current war. I highly doubt there was ever any serious consideration of further war. I think the goal was to create an aura of the US having gone mad dog crazy and ready to unleash the dogs of war at a moments notice to send a clear cut message through out the region that we're serious...

Originally posted by Abobo
It's strange how it doesn't get more press. Why is that? Isn't it a big deal that this is happening? Sadly all the press seems to focus on is the whole Nuke thing. Yeah, I know it's all about scareing people.."ooh they are evil they have nukes".

It has gotten press man. I saw plenty of FOX analysts discussing the matter as to what the US should do... Working with subversive forces to bring about change from within and all that and being very careful not to give ammunition to the mullahs that could help them rally the population on nationalism or what not.. It's just that you had the little incident of the illegal 50 ton weapon shipment to Arafat awhile back (whoops), the Hizbollah thing, and the nuke thingy :P.. But for the past 2 years, the analysis that I've seen matches what you stated overall... Namely, Iranians wanting regime change and better relations with the US...

You're Iranian, eh? You and spacecowboy have alot in common from what I recall of him ...

[Abobo]

Yeah, I'm Iranian. Card Carrying Memeber of the "Axis of Evil" since 1972. Lived in the US almost all my life though, so I really don't know how "Iranian" I am. Yeah, I love the food, language and culture. Hate all the rest of that crap.

I do think that the "war" in Iraq had a pretty good influence on events happening in Iran today. Although, stuff like this has been going on for the past 5 years. The events in 1999 were HUGE. Back then, the if the US had been more vocal..who knows what would have happend. Once again I think it's a matter of what suites US purposes at the time. Typical US poilcy...nothing special. Whatever, if the US can bring about change without alienating the Iranian public, I'm behind them 1000%.

As far as the media goes, I think they are focusing way too much on the whole Nukes/Hizbollah/Evil thing. They should focus more on the Iranian people and the suffering they have gone through in the past 25 years at the hands of these Evil Religious Zelots. I think that way, the American people would me more sympathetic. I'm starting to see more of that, but they still show Iran as this crazy country full of hyper bearded men and women in sheets. Iran is FAR from that. I mean it is soooo far from that it is crazy. If you looked at a typical picture in of Iran, it would look like your average american suburb with regular people doing their thing. Hell, Tehran (the capital), looks more like your average mid-sized american city...like Denver.

[Jimmy Carter]

Originally posted by Abobo
Once again I think it's a matter of what suites US purposes at the time.

This is every country's policy, not just United States policy. Every country behaves and does things according to what will benefit them at the given time.

However, I do hope that the US actively supports pro-democracy groups in Iran. I think we should vocally back them up, monetarily back them up, and physically back them up (with weapons, if neccessary). I'd prefer we allow the Iranians to take care of themselves, as I'm tired of going to war.

[PaCrappa]

" love it, though. Strange bedfellows, eh, when you've got so-called liberals defending Islamic theocracies."

Now now, I'd never defend an Islamic theocracy any more than I'd defend the Christian one we have here. I was merely lambasting the press as puppet of the government. You know, my usual stuff.

And if all this shit didn't perfectly parallel 1984, I wouldn't have to bring it up now would I? Believe you me, I hate the democrats and what they do too. The common theme here, for me, is the lying and the bullshit. It never seems to end (which is of course very 1984) and it comes from all directions, inside the USA and out. One thing's for sure. Most of these elected bullshitters think we need to kill other people in order for the world to be a happy place.

I think it's a farce.

Pa

[Jimmy Carter]

Originally posted by PaCrappa
Now now, I'd never defend an Islamic theocracy any more than I'd defend the Christian one we have here. I was merely lambasting the press as puppet of the government. You know, my usual stuff.

Christian Theocracy?

And if all this shit didn't perfectly parallel 1984, I wouldn't have to bring it up now would I? Believe you me, I hate the democrats and what they do too. The common theme here, for me, is the lying and the bullshit. It never seems to end (which is of course very 1984) and it comes from all directions, inside the USA and out. One thing's for sure. Most of these elected bullshitters think we need to kill other people in order for the world to be a happy place.

How does it parallel 1984, exactly?

Nobody is changing facts. Nobody is switching enemies and then saying, "Oh, we've been at war with them forever!"

There are no real parallels to 1984. Using it as a comparison is just a cheap way to take advantage of the overall "intelligence" bump one finds on these boards (e.g. more people have read 1984 here than say, Yahoo! teen chat). You can say what you want, do what you want, think what you want. June 6th, 1944 still happened. The old guys remember it, and I read about it now. Vietnam? Happened. Black Monday? Happened. Before you go using some immature comparison (i.e. e-mails that ask for military aid are the equivalent of making things up), think a little about it.

No doubt, not every e-mail received by BBC said "Yo ho! Bomb us and make us free!" And as it is, I believe Abobo here is more correct on how Iranians feel. But to simply take such knowledge and start screaming "1984!" is just a shade below reasonable.

When you and I both know a fact, and we both know the government has changed it for the common Joe, then let us say "Egad, Orwell was right", but until then, I think we can all simply say, "Well. I'm sure not everyone in Iran feels that way. And quite possibly, those e-mails aren't even representative of the real populace. But, being that I command a good sense of logic, I know very well that I have not read every e-mail coming into BBC, so I cannot make an educated guess at the actual volume of pro/anti US-aided Iranian revolution e-mail.

[Abobo]

I remember once I saw this interview on Nightline, right after the US bombed the crap out of Afghanistan. They had a reporter in Tehran asking the people what they thought of those events. I'll never forget it...one very brave woman came up and said "Please tell Mr. Bush to bomb us just like they did Afghanistan". That really put things into perspective for me. How desperate can a population be if they are ASKING to be bombed. Now that is a very extreme sentiment. But as I said before 90% if not more of the population DETESTS the ruling government. Think about it, you have 70% of the population under the age of 30. Then you have the group of people who realized that the revolution they fought so hard for ended up being another dictatorship. The only ones that back the gov't now are the poor uneduacted people living in the boondocks whom the gov't pays to come in and beat the protesters. Also, all the people who fought so hard for the 1979 revolution died in the Iran/Iraq war. On a side note, here is a chilling article of a brave Iranian student published in the National Review.

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