Why are old school RPGs held in such high esteem?

[StriderKyo]

Actually, if you worked on a game for real and had merit as you say, I could take your word seriously.

Actually, if you worked as a game designer for real and had accomplished anything as you say, we could take your word seriously.

You asked how I know. And I do because I have some experience in making videogames.

I'm sure your GoBots Doom mod will be awesome.

[Omni]

OmniGear: Game Design is how you use the pieces of the puzzle of a game. The Lead Director will get everything in to synch and try to make the best game he can with the talent provided. He is the person that decides (well, maybe a senior talent) what Cloud will do when you select special 4 in the program (which would be displayed as the name on screen by a corresponding variable)

Um, what does the job of Lead Director have to do with anything? What point does that prove? Seriously, that's as neither here nor there as you can get.

I'd like you to explain to me why you think game design and play are the same thing.

Did you miss my whole post up there?

This is fucking pointless.

[Drewbacca]

I was talking to Mech Deus.

And nothing you said was entirely accurate. Game Design is different from Level Design and character design. They are all grouped together, but since we're talking about a battle engine here specifically, I thought you'd make the connection.

Obviously I assumed to much of you.

But my point was that gameplay and game design aren't the same thing. Which Mech Deus said they were (saying executables are not gameplay). It is.

What you control, directly, in a Final Fantasy battle is the menus. You select what happens from these menus, and it happens. Regardless of what happens, it's all controlled the same way. That is its gameplay.

Actually, if you worked as a game designer for real and had accomplished anything as you say, we could take your word seriously.

And it would still have been more then any of the people above have accomplished in the industry. That means I have more experience than you. A lot of companies start out as garage companies and most people got their jobs in this industry from hard practical work.

You saying that slaps their accomplishment in the face. Which also shows your lack of insight in to the game industry itself. This has no bearing on Old School RPGs, but it does make you look clueless.

[Omni]

Then I'm curious, what exactly do you think is game design (literal definitions only, your other definition up there really meant nothing).

[Drewbacca]

Game Design is the merging of creative elements to form a distinctly original game or experience (fingers crossed). Gameplay is technical, which I've said.

(EDIT: I will define ELEMENTS as Level Design, Control interface, engine design, graphical interface, voice acting, animation, character design, etc.)

[StriderKyo]

What you control, directly, in a Final Fantasy battle is the menus. You select what happens from these menus, and it happens. Regardless of what happens, it's all controlled the same way. That is its gameplay.

No. That's its control. If you had any idea what you were talking about, every review would say "but how does the game play? Awesome! Pushing A to jump is my favourite input method, and they've used it here!" Every discussion of gameplay would boil down to a controller diagram. Nobody would ever say Sonic plays better than Flicky, because they both have the same inputs - just a jump button.

Gameplay involves response, kinesthetics, strategy, move speed, interface, relationship to environment, and several other things that aren't what you're talking about

There. It's been explained to you by the fifth person for the 90th time. Do you get it now?

[Drewbacca]

Striker: No, control is control. You can change the control all you want, gameplay is what you control on screen. Be it a character in realtime or a menu based RPG (cough cough)

I get it. I get how you don't understand the difference. I wouldn't expect you to, you clearly have no experience in anything related to gaming other then thumb wrestling a joystick and fiddling with the dimples on your couch.

As i've said before, engines vary and will change what you perceive to be 'gameplay'. In Final Fantasy, the engine is the same, as I've stated over and over and over like a broken record.

I haven't heard a valid statement to change this fact as it relates to Final Fantasy of old and new. Anybody care to take a crack? I'm on a roll here.

[StriderKyo]

And it would still have been more then any of the people above have accomplished in the industry. That means I have more experience than you. A lot of companies start out as garage companies and most people got their jobs in this industry from hard practical work.

None of them are you. Stop awarding yourself for things you haven't done. Think about it - if people who work at Acclaim are as lost as they are, and they have actual jobs, what does that make you? What are your credentials, mr. "I know everything about game design"? You went to high school? You say you're working on a game? Wow, that really overturns the massive balance of evidence that you don't know what you're talking about.

You saying that slaps their accomplishment in the face. Which also shows your lack of insight in to the game industry itself.

Quite frankly, some of them deserve a slap in the face. You're telling me that nobody who has ever worked on games didn't know what they were doing?

This has no bearing on Old School RPGs, but it does make you look clueless.

I wouldn't expect you to notice this because you're a moron, but multiple people have been telling you that exact thing for pages now, and the only person who agrees with you is Opa freaking Opa. That should be a hint.

Striker: No, control is control.

I'll tell him that next time I see him, Mr. Literacy.

You can change the control all you want, gameplay is what you control on screen. Be it a character in realtime or a menu based RPG (cough cough)

Wow. I think that's what I said. Way to change your argument around.

I get it. I get how you don't understand the difference. I wouldn't expect you to, you clearly have no experience in anything related to gaming other then thumb wrestling a joystick

At this point, I'd like everyone in the audience to read the above statement, visualize what he's talking about, and tell me if you can understand what he's trying to say. Because none of my sticks came with thumbs.

and fiddling with the dimples on your couch.

.... I guess that must be some kind of insult...I think? Anybody?

As i've said before, engines vary and will change what you perceive to be 'gameplay'. In Final Fantasy, the engine is the same, as I've stated over and over and over like a broken record.

Engines vary...right...but Final Fantasy's engine is always the same...logic...breaking...down...mind....beginning...to..atrophy...

...you know, I don't know how I got stuck in this Twilight Zone of a discussion, but I think that at this point even a chimp could tell the difference between what Final Fantasy X does and what Final Fantasy II does. So again, I beseech the audience for help - if anyone can tell me how something dumber than a chimp knows how to use a keyboard and find this site, your knowledge could be invaluable to science.

I'm on a roll here.

Please continue. The door's that way.

[PaCrappa]

A hearty "LOL" is all I've got left. I can't wait to see the fruits of your labor Andrew. Hopefully I'll have learnt enough about gameplay to enjoy the finished product.

Pa

[Drewbacca]

I know more than you about this because I've done work in the feild. That's how it works Strike. What are your credentials?

What the games 'do' is irrelevant. It's how they (as in the player) do it. Thank you for proving you don't have a clue.

As for some of the comments. You need to do what Mech Deus tells me to do and reread some things I am saying. I never said people who worked on games over the years didn't know what they were doing (as you said in the second or third quote). I said most of them started out in a garage company learning the practical work of games in small groups with their friends or people they found somehow, like I am doing. That's how you start out in this business. That's how most people start out.

Everybody who's been telling me this and that in this thread don't have any experience with the internal workings of games. The blind leading the blind.