Why are old school RPGs held in such high esteem?

[Omni]

What the games 'do' is irrelevant. It's how they (as in the player) do it. Thank you for proving you don't have a clue.

No. That's its control. If you had any idea what you were talking about, every review would say "but how does the game play? Awesome! Pushing A to jump is my favourite input method, and they've used it here!" Every discussion of gameplay would boil down to a controller diagram. Nobody would ever say Sonic plays better than Flicky, because they both have the same inputs - just a jump button.

*sigh*

[AaronChance]

I'd comment on this arguement if I could figure out what the heck it's about. If it's about Andrew proving his game designer street cred, then he can't without an actual game, even an unfinished one. So his credentials can only be what he's said so far in this thread, which is... well, not good imo.

I've made games with RPG Maker and programmed with C++, though I in no way consider myself a game designer. Of course, I wouldn't care what a designer had to say anyway if I was sure he was wrong. It's not like being elevated to god status or anything, experience doesn't always equal intellegence.

[Drewbacca]

In Final Fantasy, the engine is the same, as I've stated over and over and over like a broken record.

In response to Omnigears sigh. Care to tell me how the gameplay varies from FF3 to FFX? Maybe I'm missing some grand scheme here and they actually changed it. I certainly didn't see it when I played that game.

I'd comment on this arguement if I could figure out what the heck it's about. If it's about Andrew proving his game designer street cred, then he can't without an actual game, even an unfinished one. So his credentials can only be what he's said so far in this thread, which is... well, not good imo.

I've made games with RPG Maker and programmed with C++, though I in no way consider myself a game designer. Of course, I wouldn't care what a designer had to say anyway if I was sure he was wrong. It's not like being elevated to god status or anything, experience doesn't always equal intellegence.

It doesn't change the fact that if you didn't use RPG maker you'd have a great scope on the dealings of game making. Maybe you do now, I don't know.

The arguement isn't that though. It's about Final Fantasy 3's gameplay differenciating from Final Fantasy X's. Or the lack thereof I accused it of having that seemed like a big sin in this thread. Nobody has explained to me why they play differently.

Everybody seems to be stuck on the fact that I'm working on games and have some experience.

BTW, Ammadeau: Most games for are made in C because of the easier Windows friendly language. (although I do like some of C++'s exclusive libraries)

[Omni]

In response to Omnigears sigh. Care to tell me how the gameplay varies from FF3 to FFX? Maybe I'm missing some grand scheme here and they actually changed it. I certainly didn't see it when I played that game.

All I can say is play every single FF and tell me that all the systems are exactly the same. Because we all know Materia and Junctioning are the same, and hell, we might as well throw Espers in there too. Forget about the Job System in FF5. Nobody cares about that. Sphere Grid? Well that's almost like leveling up, certainly not different enough to be different. Let's just call it the same!

And jee, I almost forgot that you can directly control summoned monsters in FF8. But FF7 had summoned monsters too, so no matter what they change about those summoned monsters in later installments, it's still the same! Shit, Square did all that work making things different, but it's still the same. That's sad. Somebody should tell them.

[StriderKyo]

I know more than you about this because I've done work in the feild.

Really? What's a feild like?

That's how it works Strike.

I really hope you're trying to insult me there, otherwise the Canadian school system has failed us gravely.

What are your credentials?

My credentials include grad school, 19 years playing and reading about games, and not having the intelligence of a block of wood. Frankly, I don't see how you can top any of those.

What the games 'do' is irrelevant. It's how they (as in the player) do it.

Okay. So I, the player, make Cloud cast Fire 3, because I've linked it to the Phoenix materia, knowing it will both fry the boss and bring my two dead allies back to life. I did that. In another Final Fantasy, I switch out Yuna for Auron, to take advantage of his strength against an enemy with no particular weakness to magic.

You can not do either action in a Final Fantasy other than the one it appears in. This is because THE BATTLE ENGINE HAS CHANGED, meaning that you PLAY IT DIFFERENTLY. Because I am PLAYING these GAMES differently, one could say that they have DIFFERENT GAMEPLAY, and that if you can not understand this, you must be a JOKE ACCOUNT trying to see just how STUPID I believe one person can BE before realizing I'm being HAD.

Thank you for proving you don't have a clue.

That insult didn't work the first five times you tried it. Take an hour and try to think up a new one.

As for some of the comments. You need to do what Mech Deus tells me to do and reread some things I am saying. I never said people who worked on games over the years didn't know what they were doing (as you said in the second or third quote).

Then why on God's green earth do you think you must, when YOU'VE NEVER EVEN MADE A GAME?

Everybody who's been telling me this and that in this thread don't have any experience with the internal workings of games. The blind leading the blind.

Tell me something - how do you expect me to believe that someone who doesn't even know what "palatable" or "feigned" means, can barely read or write, and who has never taken a game design course is an authority on this or any subject?

[rezo]

I know more than you about this because I've done work in the feild.

What work have you done in the field? ie: what role did you play specifically. I am overly curious.

This topic is funny =\

[AaronChance]

It doesn't change the fact that if you didn't use RPG maker you'd have a great scope on the dealings of game making. Maybe you do now, I don't know.

You do know that the majority of game designers do not do any programming right?

BTW, Ammadeau: Most games for are made in C because of the easier Windows friendly language. (although I do like some of C++'s exclusive libraries)

... are you trying to say C is more windows friendly than C++? I'll assume I'm just misunderstanding you here. Incidently, Direct X is C++ library so any game using it would have to be coded in C++. When is the last time you've seen a PC game that didn't require direct x?

[Lhadatt]

This thread needs to cool off a bit.

Andrew can call himself a game designer. That doesn't mean his games are good or playable, or that his theories are not incorrect -- he doesn't have to know what he's doing to assume the title.

By that same token, Andrew needs to realize when he needs to stop postering. TNL is not a place to throw around your credentials, especially if you just made them up. I don't go around calling myself Teh Shmup G0d just because I bought Mobile Light Force 2 -- in fact, I rather suck at it. Andrew, since your arguments at this point seem to be pretty flimsy, you might want to stop flaunting them and your "game designer" status around.

To the rest of the people posting in this thread: Chill out. I don't want to move this to FC, but I will if any more dirt gets thrown around.

[JM]

OK, not trying to flame anyone or anything, but I think the big problem here is that Andrew has a different definition of "gameplay" than everyone else on the board (as stated by Omnigear & StriDer). We should all substitute the word "Gameplay" with "Controls" when he posts.

JM

[RoleTroll]

It's about Final Fantasy 3's gameplay differenciating from Final Fantasy X's. Or the lack thereof.

It's "differentiating," and you used it improperly.