Oh boy: Rumsfeld: Criticism of Bush Strengthens U.S. Foes

[gamevet]

Gamevet thing is when he used them weapons in the 80s Rumsfeld and the CIA came to Saddam´s defense and claimed it was Iran who had actually gassed its own soldiers and the people inside Iraq who were sympathetic to Iran.
Pretty crazy innit?

Yeah, it had more to do with the cold war back then. We were using Iraq, to battle the communist influences in Iran. The fact that Saddam gassed his own people though(93?), is pretty bad.

[spacecowboy]

A lot of people take arguments like this as an affront to their reputation or honor or something like that. As in, "Man, if I don't refute what so-and-so says about that, I'm gonna lose face," or something to that effect. Too many people take it personally. If I were to state that Bush snorted cocaine off a hooker's ass then drank five beers and drove around Texas in his raised-up Bronco running over pedestrians (obviously false) or that Sharon is more of a terrorist than Arafat (for the record, I think they're both pretty bad), and I was proven wrong on both counts? Whatever, I was wrong. Most people can't accept that, though. "Your mom is a whore and she looks like the bastard child of Wayne Brady and Melissa Rivers."

You're right, but I don't think that's how I reacted in this case. I just get fed up sometimes when people continually post things that add nothing to the discussion. I'm guilty of it myself and in this case, I think you caught me. Otherwise, good post. At least you didn't retort with some attack on the credibility of my liberal, anti-zionist sources.

Something about this discussion remind me of the Victory thread. Whatever happened to that thing anyway. I'm sure it got pretty big towards the end.

SC

[Wolffen]

Any time the IDF so much as looks at a terrorist, Hamas gets up in arms over it. Hamas and the PLO will go nuts no matter what someone does. I mean, really, let's be honest, are we afraid that people who hate Isreal and are working for her destruction will, if Arafat is killed, hate Isreal and work for her destruction? You're saying, "What if they act the way they already do?"

They're already slaughtering Israelis everyday; killing Arafat isn't going to make it any different.

Yeah, a few hundred Palestinians are currently involved in a jihad again Israel. You don't think that assasinating their elected leader would increase the ranks of Hamas and PLO? I'm not saying that people aren't being killed today. I'm saying that the amout of people being killed is minor compared to an all out war that could potentially include other Arab nations.

Hamas, PLO, Islamic Jihad, and countless Arabs have already declared war on Israel. The region is at war. Everyday Israeli citizens are intentionally slaughtered.

It's already open season on Israelis.

Yeah, and right now they're lucky they have a realtively small number of "hunters" out there. I'd prefer not to see every single Palestinian become a terrorist.

Boy, you're high and mighty, riding your moral hobby horse.

Damn straight. I made this hobby horse myself based on our current administration's.

I said what I wanted, and I want Arafat dead. He's a menace to peace and an active supporter of terrorism.

The same thing could be said about Sharon, based on his past.

And if wanting a terrorist dead is an issue for you, then that's your problem.

Well, it's apparently a problem for the Bush Administration too, since they don't want Israel to "remove" Arafat.

[Joust Williams]

"How can you equate someone who has to tie a bomb to his chest just to get back at 10 people vs. someone who can push a button and wipe out and entire group of people?"

I don't have to equate that. I don't see any nukes being fired, do you? Are you some kind of idiot or something?

"You're right, but I don't think that's how I reacted in this case. I just get fed up sometimes when people continually post things that add nothing to the discussion."

Pot...Kettle...black?

[spacecowboy]

"How can you equate someone who has to tie a bomb to his chest just to get back at 10 people vs. someone who can push a button and wipe out and entire group of people?"

I don't have to equate that. I don't see any nukes being fired, do you? Are you some kind of idiot or something?

Is that it? That's all you have to offer? There are not being nuclear weapons fired, but Israel does have them, although they won't admit it. (Sounds like Iraq huh?) Israel does fire missiles on a regular basis, mostly to strike back at the Hamas, but more often than not, they hit some innocents as well. So I see constant missile launchings and nuclear weapons capability as more of a threat than some guy who has to give his life to kill just a few people. Like I said before, I don't condone suicide bombings, but I don't condone launching missiles or having secretive nuclear weapons that everyone knows about.

Try to offer a little more discussion next time.

SC

[Joust Williams]

Discussion to WHAT????!??!?!?!

"There are not being nuclear weapons fired"

Then that makes what you were saying STUPID.

"So I see constant missile launchings and nuclear weapons capability as more of a threat than some guy who has to give his life to kill just a few people."

And *I* do NOT. I can find you and kill you in your sleep...am I as big of a threat as someone that DOES such action? Yes, innocents are being killed...but when a Hamas lamer does such action, he not only INTENDS to kill these innocents, but a lot of them.

[spacecowboy]

Pot...Kettle...black?

Holy crap, where have I heard that before? Are you Stone in disguise? Is it perhaps that you can't come up with anything to add to this discussion? Is your entire argument based on taking swipes at me? If it is then...

SC

[Joust Williams]

Umm...you HAVE added something to this discussion?

There's nothing to add. This has been done over and over.

[spacecowboy]

Then that makes what you were saying STUPID.

And *I* do NOT. I can find you and kill you in your sleep...am I as big of a threat as someone that DOES such action? Yes, innocents are being killed...but when a Hamas lamer does such action, he not only INTENDS to kill these innocents, but a lot of them.

I think this pretty sums up everything I've said. So when presented with a debate, your retort is everything you're saying is "stupid"? And the level of brainwashing it must have taken to get you to think that a guy with a pipe bomb is more dangerous than nuclear weapons must have been quite severe. I don't see any logical explanation for that, which you've been unable to furnish thus far. Merit-less.

SC

[Joust Williams]

"So when presented with a debate"

YOU HAVEN'T OFFERED ANYTHING TO DEBATE!!!

"And the level of brainwashing it must have taken to get you to think that a guy with a pipe bomb is more dangerous than nuclear weapons must have been quite severe"

When person A is using said bombs and B is not...then yeah. When A is killing far more people than B...then yeah.