Oh boy: Rumsfeld: Criticism of Bush Strengthens U.S. Foes

[spacecowboy]

"As for me, Israel seems to have a better idea of where violent Hamas members are than Arafat does. Do you actually believe that? If you're in power and aren't taking action, that makes you guilty. That's the way this world works."

Furthermore, you're the one wanting to claim things as irrelevant.("Whether Arafat has terrorists connections is irrelevant. He's not the one with nuclear weapons and U.S. backing.")

Ok I still don't understand where you are coming from. How does that explain why Arafat is a terrorist?

You must be 13 right? Picking inane comments out of an entire speech, but I digress, it needs clarification. It's irrelevant as it pertains to the ability to commit mass genocide, which is what Sharon is doing. Sorry for not making that clear. I certainly didn't mean that terrorist connections are nothing to worry about.

SC

[Joust Williams]

I edited my post.

Sharon is committing mass genocide? You're hellbent on showming me why he CAN...but that is far different. If I had what he has at his disposal, I'd certainly be doing a better job of this "genocide".

[spacecowboy]

Anyone deliberately not taking action against terrorists under their "control" qualifies as a terrorist in MY book (maybe not yours). The fact that someone DOES have nukes doesn't bother me as much as the person behind it. No, I don't think Sharon is a good guy, but I trust him with nukes more than I trust Arafat with his current methods. Easy for me to say halfway around the world, but you're no different.

Look Arafat isn't the leader of a country since there is no Palestine and if there was he certainly wouldn't be in charge. If you knew anything about Arafat, you'd know he is just a figurehead in all of this. He has no real power over anything and even if he did, I doubt he could do anything about it. Just because someone has connections to a terrorist group doesn't mean they have control. So where you get the idea that Arafat is in control, I have no idea. Have you ever been to that region of the world? I have, so yeah I'd say I am a little different.

SC

[Joust Williams]

It doesn't matter. He is doing nothing about it. As much as you disagree, I think there's a lot he could be doing. Note that control is in quotes.

I don't care if you've BEEN there...try living there for the rest of your life. Util then, yeah, you're no different.

[spacecowboy]

Read some news or some first-hand accounts of what is going on over there. I hate discussing things with people who don't know anything about what they're saying. I'm done with this thread.

SC

[Joust Williams]

hahahhahahaa

"I'm done with this thread."

Indeed you are....indeed you are. Oh yeah, I hate discussing things with people who don't know anything about what they're saying. "Read some news"

"Dude, you spit in my Big Mac"
"Oh please, read some news, newb"

[Jimmy Carter]

Look Arafat isn't the leader of a country since there is no Palestine and if there was he certainly wouldn't be in charge.

And there never was a Palestine. Palestine only existed because the Romans wanted erase the Jews from the area (didn't work, though). The Romans came in, took the place over, and named it Palestine.

If you knew anything about Arafat, you'd know he is just a figurehead in all of this.

And Bush is just a figurehead, too, I suppose.

You know as well as I do that Arafat isn't simply an innocent bystander in this situation. He can easily control the actions of Hamas and Islamic Jihad; he had the Palestinian police at his disposal, he knows where Hamas/Islamic Jihad operate, so why doesn't he do anything? Hamas is recognized worldwide as being a terrorist organization and, despite having the resources available, Arafat does nothing.

[Almaci]

Yeah, it had more to do with the cold war back then. We were using Iraq, to battle the communist influences in Iran. The fact that Saddam gassed his own people though(93?), is pretty bad.

Urm comunist influences 50s, gassing of Irani soldiers and Kurds 80s.
Over 30 years between them.

Urm no its not, the military wing of Hamas is regarded as a terrorist organisation.
Hamas is way more then that tough.
Just like the IRA had a legit political arm called Sin Fein if im correct Hamas consists of several parts, many of wich have nothing to do with terrorist actions.

[gamevet]

Urm comunist influences 50s, gassing of Irani soldiers and Kurds 80s.
Over 30 years between them.

The Soviet Union was providing low level military weapons to Iran and training. The US(Reagan) counter-balanced that by training the Iraqi soldiers .


During Operation Desert Storm, Saddam dropped scud missiles(Loaded with chemical gases) on the Kurds, killing about 180,000 people.

[Calliander]

At least you didn't retort with some attack on the credibility of my liberal, anti-zionist sources.

I don't attack sources because the only place I get my news from is the NY Times. I don't read Reuters or the Washington Post or anything else - just the Times. So for me to insult someone's use of many sources, to me, sounds silly.

I fashion myself a liberal - I just happened to support the war. I also don't think Israel is the bad guy here. It bothers me when I see anyone, liberal or conservative, taking sides, especially with Arafat. I think it's terrible that people are dieing no matter where it is, and I think we need to step in and do something about it. Both Israel and Palestine are to blame here. It's just that Israel is only attacking Palestine while there is speculation as to Palestinian involvement in terrorist activities. Sharon isn't a terrorist now. What he did in the past was pretty bad, and it isn't irrelevant, but he's not currently a terrorist or a supporter of them. Arafat's continued association with Hamas and whatnot is pretty bad. It doesn't necessarily make him a terrorist, but if he didn't support them, he would cut them off. The bottom line is, we can't take sides here. We need to help the PEOPLE of both Israel and Palestine, because ultimately they're the ones who are suffering. Palestinian suicide bombers kill Israelis - but it's not just Israelis dieing there. Israel responds and more people die. The cycle needs to stop, and no matter who is in charge out there, it isn't going to. "Roadmap to Peace" won't work - action needs to be taken.

I think BoBVila is really EThugg.

And Stone, aside from being my buddy in real life, is a cool guy. Don't insult him anymore. He just gets a little heated at times and is liable to call you stupid if you don't see things like he does.

You know as well as I do that Arafat isn't simply an innocent bystander in this situation. He can easily control the actions of Hamas and Islamic Jihad; he had the Palestinian police at his disposal, he knows where Hamas/Islamic Jihad operate, so why doesn't he do anything? Hamas is recognized worldwide as being a terrorist organization and, despite having the resources available, Arafat does nothing.

Exactly. Though, that doesn't mean that Palestine is the bad guy, either, in my opinion. To me, that just means we need to act like the parents here and lay down the law.

During Operation Desert Storm, Saddam dropped scud missiles(Loaded with chemical gases) on the Kurds, killing about 180,000 people.

You know, I was only in like fifth or sixth grade during Desert Storm, but I still remember that. How could he do that? It'd be like us dropping missiles on the South or something.