Castlevania: Lament of Innocence

[Will]

I didn't have any problem with the controls...in fact, I think it was the most fluid 3rd person actioner I've yet played. I thought the levels were great, too, can't really think of bad levels, except maybe down in the sewers, that was pretty generic...but, they're sewers.

Maybe I'm just remembering it better since I got it on release. Is it safe to say if you loved DMC, you'll like LoI (especially if you already like the CV franchise)?

I didn't have any problem with the controls in DMC either but the only thing I'd do is map the sword/jump buttons like they did in DMC2 which was absolutely perfect.

The level comparison between DMC and Castlevania LOI is kind of ridiculous. I mean c'mon the architecture is insanely better in DMC with that cool pirate ship area, actual different looking rooms with ornate scenery and lighting, alot of beautiful stuff. Castlevania's dungeons and levels are less detailed with almost nothing in the middle of rooms and the hallways...its been talked to death already but its true.

The camera kind of sucks for the platforming in LOI but its not that much better in DMC since alot of times the camera moves around and screws you when you're in combat and jumping to platforms which make the camera shift in angle suddenly which pissed me off.

Musicwise LOI is fantastic and it is way better than Devil may Cry's stuff but the music in that game isn't bad at all its actually quite awesome with viceral rock to creepy haunting areas but Castlevania has nice themes for each area and is just great to listen to while playing.

I agree with Captain Vegetable in that I'm always curious as to what lies behind other rooms and such, and the game does get better the more you play it since you earn more moves and can do more things later on.

If the Castlevania crew want to make a better game next time they need to work on a better camera for platforming, maybe add targeting, making the castle levels much busier and less dull, better water effects, do multi tiered/leveled environments more apparant to the eye, have different shaped rooms, ramp up the difficulty a couple of notches and integrate a level up experience system that SOTN started(the move gaining thing in LOI isn't bad though but there's a bit less motivation).

But FuryFox, I'd say you already know what to expect. I wouldn't say LOI is better than DMC but its definitely better than DMC2.

[Cheebs]

I've condensed your list, Chibs.



I didn't get the feeling of CV being a "switch flipper" at all. Yes, you flipped switches, but not so many to say it's a "switch flipper," along the lines of Blood Omen 2 or something like that.

I agree that the switch flipping wasn't as bad as the more notorious switch flippers out there, but that was still the feeling the game gave me. All of the "Metroidvanias" sent you off wandering in 10 different directions, and you always came to either a boss and a new item/ability just beyond the boss, or you came to an obsitcle you couldn't pass until a new ability was gained. One way or another, you could eventually move on, and the castle eventually connected together in a million different places and nothing really felt like a dead end. The castle felt huge, and that made exploration fun. In LoI, everything felt like a dead end arm on a hub with a switch at the end of it. See a sealed door somewhere, walk down a path to push something. Backtrack. Do it on two more paths and then go through the door that unlocks. Exploration purly for the sake of finding the switch to flip, hence it felt like a switch flipper to me.

I fully understand that this wasn't trying to be a Metroidvania. I'm just pointing out why I didn't like the "LoI" style exploration but I did like the "Metroidvania" exploration.

As far as making LoI an action game: I loved the action in Castlevania 1-4/Bloodlines/DraculaX/SNES DraculaX. I'm fine with Castlevania being all action. But those old Castlevanias supported their action with polished levels. I wasn't just whipping badguys, I was jumping over pits, racing collapsing stair cases, climbing giant vertical clock towers, whipping the walls to find secrets, figuring out a way to jump onto an enemy-infested ledge, or swinging from hooks. And I was doing all of that while fighting the badguys. And levels could be made in particularly nasty fashions because the designers knew you would only have to pass it once, and you'd only be traveling through the level in one direction. In comparison, the flat-room arena combat in LoI felt like a very nice tech demo for combat that could be used in a game, but not a game itself.

I'm not saying that I can't see why others would like the game. It is clearly great combat and play control. I'm just saying it wasn't enough for me.

[NoFace]

Wow, information overload on the whole DMC vs. Castlevania debate. Here's my thoughts on the matter.

First, DMC2 sucks ass, so let's not even factor it into the picture. It didn't do anything better than the first one, so it's not worth considering really. That said, let's compare.

Graphics:

Graphically, it's a toss up. The texture work in Castlevania is insane, some of the best ever for a 3D game I'd say. Also, the character models are quite detailed. Level architecture is pretty good at times even though the game certainly does have that boxy feel to it (but the backgrounds in some rooms are very beautiful).

By comparison, DMC, which is about two years old now (worth considering because it still holds up nicely), also some excellent texture work, not as nice as Castlevania, but still good. I'd say the design of the castle and surrounding areas bests Castlevania (how did that happen?), you don't have rooms used over and over again. Character models are also very good, I think Castlevania's are better (they look really great when you see them up close I think).

In terms of art design, Castlevania wins hands down. While there are some cool ass monsters and even Dante himself is pretty awesome, everything in Castlevania from the main characters (feminine looking or not) to the actual artwork within the castle is fantastic. And The Forgotten One was just way too cool.

So, I'd give the edge to Castlevania here.

Sound:

This is easy. Both games have atrocious voice acting (funny, but horrible), but Vania has the Japanese voice option. So even if those are bad, silly Americans like myself can't tell! As for sound effects, they both have good ones, and there's not much more I can say on that. The real kicker of course is the music... and while I like the go crazy and kick ass music from DMC, Lament of Innocence is just top notch music. Nobody here is surprised by that though I'm sure.

Two points for Castlevania.

Control:

Both games have excellent control. Both games have a main character with awesome moves. I'd even say it was more fun playing as Dante because having a huge sword and two guns (or a mutha fuckin' sawed off shotgun ) was (and still is) totally awesome. The thing that makes Castlevania the winner here is the game's camera. IGA obviously could have went cinematic with the camera, but it seems he went for function instead. The amount of times you're getting hit off screen or firing at things you can't see in DMC is a lot (and I mean a lot) more than Vania. So because of that, you can worry about the controls and not about the camera switching on you or being a bitch.

So, based on the camera alone, Vania with three points.

Fun:

So it'd seem Castlevania is the better game right? I'm not so sure. The stretched out castle design and tons of backtracking really brought things down a lot for Castlevania. I think in the end, I can say that I had a better time playing through DMC at the time. Granted, DMC was something new, and my expectations weren't nearly as high as a game that comes from the same series as Symphony of the Night. I enjoyed both games, but in the end I'd probably say DMC was about a 9, and Castlevania was about an 8.

So, in the end, I didn't really name much of anything that DMC does better (other than it being more enjoyable in some aspects), but there you have it, my opinion on the matter.

[MechDeus]

"I'll kill you AND the night!"

[NoFace]

"But I am beloved by the night!"

SOTN Dracula dialogue > LoI Walter dialogue

[Captain Vegetable]

"Die, you MONSTER!"

Leon LoI dialogue > SotN Richter dialogue.

[Shin Johnpv]

What is a HUMAN but a misserable sack of lies!

[Roufuss]

Half of Alucard's dialogue sounded like he recorded it out of a toilet, there was this weird sort of echo.

Maybe it was just the scratched copy I used to own.

[NoFace]

That's just how the son of Dracula sounds you see.

[Shin Johnpv]

HAVE AT YOU!