Global Democratic Revolution

[Stone]

LOL, Stone, could you take anyone in a fight? I mean you do talk that might makes right stuff, so one would figure that you're quite the badass. Wouldn't you have to be if you actually lived by what you say on the internet?

Also, how do you suppose that you'd fare in combat in Iraq and what's kept you from going there?

I bleed really easily.

[Almaci]

Yea... and people change, dipshit. High school was a while back, four years back in fact.

Governments change, domcracies change and dictatorships change

[PaCrappa]

"I bleed really easily."

I see. So then might makes right is okay for governments and giant armies to prove, but it's not so grand on a personal level. I mean suppose that some big guy decided that he was the USA and you were Iraq. And he just wanted to knock some sense into you so that you'd see/do things his way. What would be right about that? Would you bow down and accept it since it's in keeping with the spirit of the talk you talk?

Stone, you've hit rockbottom three times in this thread.

Exhibit A) Namecalling. Do you really need to work at a kindergarten level to espouse the virtues of your precious government/president? Please don't say that it was only in retaliation that you flexed the namecalling card. Aren't we Americans supposed to be all magnanimous and bigger than juvenile reactionary behavior?

Exhibit B) "Right, wrong, smart, stupid - you've got less influence, less money, and fewer guns. You are fucked." Noone trying to convince others of how wonderful and kind their government/president is or attempting to showcase their vast array of Republican, progovernment, proBush knowledge should ever have uttered such socially divisive nonsense.

Exhibit C) Inciting some sort of empty tough guy challenge between who you believe to be your constituents (the warmongering might makes right, my way or the highway mindset political bully types) and who you believe to be softy soft hippies (the let's not kill people types).

When TNL's own King of All "Neocons" (give me strength) starts breaking down like that in front of his disciples and his detractors alike, it's over. You've been thoroughly routed, and it was basically at your own hand. Regurgitating conservative ethos that you read in some "neocon" (LOL) fanzine or saw on Fox News will certainly make one look smart in front of the similarly duped but people who engage in such mindlessness can usually be handled by nothing more than common sense. Common sense allows for no security blanket of rhetoric. TV news shows don't go very far in supporting the sensible man's argument. It either makes sense or it doesn't and has nothing to do with what your favorite government official said in his speech. Killing people in order to free them doesn't make much sense and calling that sort of thing a "Global Democratic Revolution" makes even less.

Pa

[Spent]

Sure, why not? Nah I wouldnt say Im a tough guy. But you know I am joining the Army once I finish this noise (college) up.

Well if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is then kudos to you and I'll shut up.

[Diff-chan]

"I bleed really easily."

I see. So then might makes right is okay for governments and giant armies to prove, but it's not so grand on a personal level. I mean suppose that some big guy decided that he was the USA and you were Iraq. And he just wanted to knock some sense into you so that you'd see/do things his way. What would be right about that? Would you bow down and accept it since it's in keeping with the spirit of the talk you talk?

If Stone was walking around hitting random people with a hammer and going into random homes and slaughtering the entire family just as a way to prove his worth to himself, I for one would be quite glad that some big guy decided to take matters into his own hands and finish him off. Hell man I would help him do it.

Painting Iraq and Saddam Hussein as the poor little squirming victim is a bad idea, PaCrappa.

And for what it's worth I was watching ABC News and the reporter was in Iraq and the owner of an electronics store in Baghdad said something very close to this: "I want to personally thank Mr. Bush for bringing us out of darkness and giving us all a second chance." Undoubtedly not all of Iraqis will agree with this sentiment but you cant please all the people all the time, and remember this is ABC not FOX that I am talking about k.

There have been articles from Life magazine reposted on the net from like, 1946, and you swap out the word Germany for the word Iraq and you have any of the articles that bleeding hearts are writing today. The resemblance is uncanny. *America has no business being there* and shit. Later when I get home Ill find a link and dig it up. Its good to think about because obviously Germany benefitted from what happened post-war... theyre what the 3rd largest economy now? What would've happened if we left? World War III 20 years later after a fresh set of soldiers were born? Hmm...

Well if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is then kudos to you and I'll shut up.

Fair enough. And its not so much my money Im putting on the line (unless you take into account the money I will not make over that time thanks to low military salaries) but my ass.

[Matt]

If Stone was walking around hitting random people with a hammer and going into random homes and slaughtering the entire family just as a way to prove his worth to himself, I for one would be quite glad that some big guy decided to take matters into his own hands and finish him off. Hell man I would help him do it.

Hmm - but if Stone the random hammer-bashing dude was said "big guy", then there'd be a problem, no? Seems like might doesn't make right - it just wins whether it's right or not.

(This isn't supposed to be an Iraq statement, BTW)

[Stone]

"I bleed really easily."

I see. So then might makes right is okay for governments and giant armies to prove, but it's not so grand on a personal level. I mean suppose that some big guy decided that he was the USA and you were Iraq. And he just wanted to knock some sense into you so that you'd see/do things his way. What would be right about that? Would you bow down and accept it since it's in keeping with the spirit of the talk you talk?

I was joking, ass. If I was the single-person equivalent of Iraq, a weaselly terrorist who gave his employees acid baths and tortured them, and "some big guy" was a policeman, and he wanted to "knock some sense into me", then I'd BE FOR IT. I HOPE HE WOULD KILL ME, BECAUSE I WOULD BE DOING EVIL, AND HE WOULD HAVE THE STRENGTH TO CORRECT IT.

You don't fucking get it, do you?

You've made the wrong comparison, though, since you think that what I'm saying is that it's purely "might" that makes the US "right". That the US has no qualities that lift it above Iraq morally, and that, what, I actually 'know' that, which is why I have to support this "might is right" idea.

Actually, I was arguing, with what you mention in exhibit B, for something along the lines of capitalism in politics - if we can't argue about "right", let's argue about results. I can't argue with you or Almaci - you guys are lost. Fine with me, because the results of the last 100 years have put us, my side, ahead. We're "in the lead", if there is some sort of "lead" in global politics.

Are we the forces of evil, and are we "winning"? Maybe that's your worldview. Maybe "good" and "evil" don't exist, which is why you trace my thinking directly from "might" to "right". I think we're the forces of good. It doesn't really matter, though, does it. You won't be convinced of my view, I won't be convinced by your view.

I guess what I'm saying is that might has nothing to do with right. "Might makes results" and "I've thought pretty hard about whether these results are right" is my philosophy, maybe. "Might makes results" is what everyone thinks though, terrorists included. I hope the second part is what puts me ahead.

Exhibit A) Namecalling. Do you really need to work at a kindergarten level to espouse the virtues of your precious government/president? Please don't say that it was only in retaliation that you flexed the namecalling card. Aren't we Americans supposed to be all magnanimous and bigger than juvenile reactionary behavior?

Look, I don't know or care who you are, and I don't put much stock in what your opinion of "rockbottom" is. Impress me, somehow, and maybe it'll make a difference. It bothers me when sleeveboy says I'm a windbag. He felt like he had to make a comment, though, I guess, (the whole "Me agree with Pat Buchanan? Does not compute," thing is confusing, I know) and forming complete thoughts is time consuming.

I don't give a damn what you think.

Exhibit B) "Right, wrong, smart, stupid - you've got less influence, less money, and fewer guns. You are fucked." Noone trying to convince others of how wonderful and kind their government/president is or attempting to showcase their vast array of Republican, progovernment, proBush knowledge should ever have uttered such socially divisive nonsense.

The knowledge thing doesn't work, it hasn't, it won't, not here.

"Socially divisive"? We're already socially divided. You're on your side of the cliff, we're on ours. I may think it's fun to remind you guys that your beliefs aren't producing anything, they haven't produced anything - your beliefs lead to 5 year plans and great steps forward and cool things like that. It sounds like you're scolding me for telling a one-armed guy that he has one arm. I could've been nicer about it, sure, maybe it's not nice to dick-wave, who cares?

I write for myself and I taunt because it's funny. The taunts get responses, whic gets me to write, for myself, again.

Exhibit C) Inciting some sort of empty tough guy challenge between who you believe to be your constituents (the warmongering might makes right, my way or the highway mindset political bully types) and who you believe to be softy soft hippies (the let's not kill people types).

That was a fucking joke, christ. Look, I don't really care whether I could or couldn't kick your ass, or anyone else's ass - you should have been able to tell that what I was saying wasn't about that. Maybe you've got a black belt in kung fu, and you could beat the shit out of me while listening to Pacifica and chewing on a vegan whole wheat nutrition bar. Maybe I'll walk out of work today and some crazed communist will run me over in a Prius.

Means shit to me, as long as our country stays free and we don't slip into the sort of hell that EU-style socialism represents to me. That's the might I'm talking about.

Regurgitating conservative ethos that you read in some "neocon" (LOL) fanzine or saw on Fox News will certainly make one look smart in front of the similarly duped but people who engage in such mindlessness can usually be handled by nothing more than common sense.

Look, dismiss it at your own peril, these policies are at the heart of the most powerful country in the world. They're driving the Republican party, they're driving most of the Democrats who aren't trying to get elected by slagging Bush, the Tory party is coming around, center-Labor is about there, Australia is basically there, Italy is there, Israel is definitely there.

Fox News is the right wing equivalent of Michael Moore. It's dumb and bad. Most of the people on right-wing talk shows are as far away from me as Lieberman is away from you. Read something like the Weekly Standard, or Commentary, or Christopher Hitchens, even.

I've probably read more left-wing political thought in the last year than you have or ever will read. Same goes for right-wing and just about everything else. It took four long years of reading stuff like Chomsky and Fanon before I got to where I am now. I don't know if I have any unique thoughts, I don't know how many people do, but I can and have enjoyed debating politely with people from all sides of the political spectrum.

This isn't about that, this is about fucking around. As far as looking "smart in front of the similarly duped", look at the masturbatory responses, from you, that Almaci's half-formed spewing has elicited. The most you can say is that there is no perspective on either side.

Common sense allows for no security blanket of rhetoric. TV news shows don't go very far in supporting the sensible man's argument. It either makes sense or it doesn't and has nothing to do with what your favorite government official said in his speech.

Come on, read those sentences again, they're embarassing. You've at least made attempts at clear thought in other posts. You sound like you're reciting Public Enemy lyrics. "The Revoution Will Not Be Televised!"

Killing people in order to free them doesn't make much sense and calling that sort of thing a "Global Democratic Revolution" makes even less.

We're trying to free the ones we don't kill. Plus, god, I thought the posts I was making were at least vaguely funny, come on - "Viva La Global Democratic Revolucion?"

[Almaci]

Stone:Means shit to me, as long as our country stays free and we don't slip into the sort of hell that EU-style socialism represents to me. That's the might I'm talking about.

Yeah man it sucks working for a US company getting over 50 days of(thats over 10 full weeks at 5 workdays a week) a year, making 50k+ for 37 houres of work a week.
Its a living hell having a free hospitalisation insurance, life insurance, disability insurance AND a 401k plan all payed for by my employer becouse of union deals(wich affect everyone, not just those who are unionised) and good employee protection laws.
Its horrible living with the knoledge that no matter where I am on this sorry planet we call earth im entitled to fisrt class healthcare witouth having to worry about the bill.
Its a living hell knowing that my standard of living is amongst the very top of this world and that I have a constituionaly protected freedom of speach, movement and tought.
Its horrible having to live in a country with free and fair elections with coalitions that represent the people.

Its a living hell for sure.

[Matt]

Means shit to me, as long as our country stays free and we don't slip into the sort of hell that EU-style socialism represents to me. That's the might I'm talking about.

Geez - living hell? What's so bad about it?

It's really no different from what you're living now. You're still paying for the benefits you get, whether they're from your employer or from the government. The end result to you is the same, so what's the big fuss all about?

Seriously - I get this stuff all the time from guys here who find out I'm Canadian and figure I ought to be happier in the Capitalist wonderland of the USA. Ironically, I've heard this a lot from people in the military, who are supported by taxpayers in the first place.

Pacrappa, I'm surprised that you're digging Stone so much for namecalling, yet supporting Almaci when he does the same. Neither of them are any more justified than the other.

[Stone]

Stone:Means shit to me, as long as our country stays free and we don't slip into the sort of hell that EU-style socialism represents to me. That's the might I'm talking about.

Yeah man it sucks working for a US company getting over 50 days of(thats over 10 full weeks at 5 workdays a week) a year, making 50k+ for 37 houres of work a week.

I've got everything you've got except for the vacation (how much of that $50k+ do you take home?). I'm 22, I don't know how old you are.

If you make $60k (including bonuses), it looks like your marginal tax rate is 50%. I lose about 25% of my income to taxes. $30k of cash left over, then? What about VAT? My sales tax is about half yours, I believe. I can buy gas for $1.50 a gallon. If you're making $50k after taxes, then that's pretty impressive, although it'd gall me to know I was losing $50k a year to your government. I've got greater access to more goods at lower prices.

I work as much as I work because I like it, and I could work less if I wanted to, and I'd hate to be in a job where I'd have to stop working on a project because my employer could get fined for letting me stay late. I enjoy my job, and it doesn't represent 37 hours of slavery to me. My cash advantages relate directly to the fact that my employer isn't forced to give me 2 months of vacation.

Its a living hell having a free hospitalisation insurance, life insurance, disability insurance AND a 401k plan all payed for by my employer becouse of union deals(wich affect everyone, not just those who are unionised) and good employee protection laws.

I've got all of those things, and so do all of the warehouse workers here, and we don't have unions.

Its horrible living with the knoledge that no matter where I am on this sorry planet we call earth im entitled to fisrt class healthcare witouth having to worry about the bill.

Me too.

Its a living hell knowing that my standard of living is amongst the very top of this world and that I have a constituionaly protected freedom of speach, movement and tought.

My standard of living is higher than yours, even if our average standard is a few places lower, and we created most of those freedoms.

Its horrible having to live in a country with free and fair elections with coalitions that represent the people.

My electoral system keeps me in power (hohoho) and allows cabals of Jews and Cubans to control American policy.

My state has an immigrant governor who can't even properly pronounce the state's name.

And, my country can kick your country's ass.