Global Democratic Revolution

[Diff-chan]

A recent US sponsored United Nations study found belgium and holland to have a higher standard of living then the US.
The study took into account literacy levels, life expectancy, availability and quality of healthcare, relative comparative wealth etcetera.
So urm, its pretty much given fact that quality of life and standards of living in belgium, Holland and especialy the nordic countries is and remains well above those in the US.

Belgium's population is also about 1/30th of the United States', or the population of Michigan. So that fact doesn't surprise me one bit. With the USA you are obviously dealing with a much higher sample rate.

And PaCrappa, Im not saying thats the way things should be but might has always been right since the beginning of time and nothing is gonna change.

[Kenshin]

Because the citizens of the commonwealth want it that way. Remember as I say this I am 50% Puerto Rican by blood.

And here I thought he was talking about the District of Columbia.

People in DC get taxed, but they have no actual representation in the House or the Senate.

[Grave]

Debating politics online sure is fun! And we always get somewhere with our debates!

[Gohron]

Wich is total and utter bulshit as I dont even go to indymedia sites etcetera and whenever I provide links to verify my claims its mostly to US mass media sites

US Mass Media news stations/sites arn't exactly the most reliable sources either, too much political influence in both conservative and liberal news agencies.

[Matt]

Bah - that speech, while good in principle, is a big joke. Perhaps Bush could have taken some time to apologize for the oppressive dicatorships that America has helped create and sustain? The US certainly hasn't been in the game of promoting democracy for the past 50 years, and millions of people are dead or living in poverty because of it.

If this really is some sort of idealistic turnaround for US policy, then that's a very good thing and whoever wrote the speech deserves to be applauded. If it's just another pile of meaningless rhetoric to give the administration a popularity boost at home, then it's a slap in the face to all who have suffered under US-sponsored oppression.

And okay, I gotcha on the citizenship thing. Sucks that you have to pledge allegiance to the king, though. We don't have to do that sort of crap around these parts, obviously.

Well, Americans are supposed to pledge allegiance to their flag, which isn't really any different. The remaining European monarchs don't really do anything useful these days and are just symbolic of the country - no different from the national flag, anthem, etc (but they can give speeches and wave at crowds). Personally, I'd be disturbed if *any* country granted citizenship to people who refused to pledge allegiance to it, in whatever form.

Ironically, the position of US president is more similar to a king than almost any other democratic country's leader - he's voted into office and rotated out every 8 or 4 years, but otherwise there's not a lot of difference. It's a byproduct of the US system being though up in the 18th century when monarchy was the norm.

Socialism sucks, it's communism with votiing.

Now that is total rubbish. If you dislike socialism, you should probably leave the US, because it's here just as much as anywhere else. You can't have a society that's purely capitalist, just like you can't have one that's purely socialist. Pure, unfettered socialism will give you something like communism (which is really bad), but on the other hand pure capitalism gets you medieval feudalism (which is no better). There has to be a balance between the two in order for society to function.

Irregardless of the whole "quality of life" thing, which is true, you'd be surprised to learn that the governments in most other democratic countries do a much better job of representing the people. Unfortunately, the US is not very democratic when compared with most other modern countries - witness the fiasco of the last election, the ongoing "patriot act" debacle, Melf's Puerto Rico example, and plenty of other issues where the public has little to no say.

It'd be nice if the US pledged to fix their own system before trying to spread it around the world, but such is life.

[Almaci]

Belgium's population is also about 1/30th of the United States', or the population of Michigan. So that fact doesn't surprise me one bit. With the USA you are obviously dealing with a much higher sample rate.

And PaCrappa, Im not saying thats the way things should be but might has always been right since the beginning of time and nothing is gonna change.

Doesnt change the fact that on a per capita basis we earn more money, live longer and healthier, work less houres a week, have way more vacation time, live better and are smarter.

Oh BTW excellent post Matt, couldnt agree more.
And I have no problem pledging allegiance to Belgium, I owe this country big time, its pledging alegiance to the King I have a problem with, yah its symbolic and he has no real power anymore, but still, I refuse to do it.

[Hero]

I been here since June, homie.

Although, I may be up in Van Nuys or Woodland Hills soon.

Well, I shoulda known earlier; we could have argued over politics or something ^^

[Critical Overdrive]

Debating politics online sure is fun! And we always get somewhere with our debates!

Welcome to Sound Off!, nO0B

[Melf]

I remember reading about a survey like the one almaci mentioned. The US ranked 16th. I think Australia was #1 but I'm not sure.

Al, you got a link to that (or any other such) survey?

[Fe 26]

"Socialism sucks, it's communism with voting"

Please visit the UK, the Netherlands, France etc before making such absurd remarks. People are living just fine in many places that don't use the USA's specific brand of democracy. Does anyone here think that it would really "suck" to live under the "socialist" auspices of say... Holland? LOL, I'd be quite surprised if the standard of living in that country was the slightest fraction lower than what we consider is so wonderful in this country.

We tend to think we're the best because we like where we live. It's pretty simple. An American who loves America is pretty standard. It's a crying shame that anyone who would like to cut through the bullshit is labelled unamerican or a hippie or any other term that will keep the namecaller from actually having to think about the aforementiuoned bullshit or put himself in anyone else's shoes, while those that buy into said bullshit say clever things like "might makes right so get used to it".

Pa

I was talking about on paper. Any government system would work if the people who run it, and are under it are of high enough calibur. A dictatorship would work if the dictator was smart enough, and kind enough to make it work. All governments are that way. The US not reaching those high marks has more to do with the stupidity and the complete lack of ethics that those in controle have, and less to do with the perfection that is democracy (or the there lack of).