Global Democratic Revolution

[Almaci]

I remember reading about a survey like the one almaci mentioned. The US ranked 16th. I think Australia was #1 but I'm not sure.

Al, you got a link to that (or any other such) survey?

Its on the United Nations site.
Australia BTW ranks behind the US, top countries are the Nordic ones(Sweden, Denmark etcetera) followed by Holland and Belgium.

[Stone]

This is a quote from Matt:

Bah - that speech, while good in principle, is a big joke. Perhaps Bush could have taken some time to apologize for the oppressive dicatorships that America has helped create and sustain? The US certainly hasn't been in the game of promoting democracy for the past 50 years, and millions of people are dead or living in poverty because of it.

Ask, and ye shall receive:

"Sixty years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe, because in the long run stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty.

As long as the Middle East remains a place where freedom does not flourish, it will remain a place of stagnation, resentment and violence ready for export.

And with the spread of weapons that can bring catastrophic harm to our country and to our friends, it would be reckless to accept the status quo. "

We're a "western nation", Matt. The above passage was on the 5th page of the speech this thread is referring to.

I imagine that Almaci and you missed it because, not surprisingly, the two of you didn't take the time to actually read what Bush said. Doesn't matter, I guess, because "BUSH IS DUM AND A NAZI," or whatever.

Hey, everyone else, you may actually want to read the text of the speech. It'll be fun and educational.

Its on the United Nations site.
Australia BTW ranks behind the US, top countries are the Nordic ones(Sweden, Denmark etcetera) followed by Holland and Belgium.

As far as living in Belgium goes - you're happy there now. Give immigration 20 years and it's going to destroy your country.

[Almaci]

Dude I AM a fucking immigrant myself, Immigration has been big here since the fucking 20s and all studies show immigration should continue in order to not implode in the future as the local inhabitants of Belgium get less then 2 children per family on average.

And seems like YOU didnt read my reply, I KNOW what Bush said and gave a perfectly logical explanation as to WHY he said it and why his words ring hollow, I even gave two examples why his words were hollow and meaningless.
Twit.

[Stone]

Dude I AM a fucking immigrant myself, Immigration has been big here since the fucking 20s and all studies show immigration should continue in order to not implode in the future as the local inhabitants of Belgium get less then 2 children per family on average.

You've got a job, right? How many of the new immigrants are going to slip happily into the "Unemployed, not looking for work" category?

And seems like YOU didnt read my reply, I KNOW what Bush said and gave a perfectly logical explanation as to WHY he said it and why his words ring hollow, I even gave two examples why his words were hollow and meaningless.
Twit.

Where? Here:

Oh boy, so here we have a profesional liar making a speech to rally people behind him by giving them visions of something grander so the good old feelings of patriotism ...

?

I saw "Matt, I agree with you completely". The thing is, jackass, he's apologizing for the mistakes we've made when we've supported anti-Democratic regimes, and he's committing to a turn-around in American policy.

sideline a democraticaly eected leader in the middle east itself.

Which one?

1 Norway 78.5 4 29,918 99%*
2 Sweden 79.7 3 24,277 99%*
3 Canada 78.8 6 27,840 99%*
4 Belgium 78.4 6 27,178 99%*
5 Australia 78.9 6 25,693 99%*
6 United States 77 7 34,142 99%*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2149195.stm

You've got benefits, we've got a higher GDP.

[Almaci]

No I did it here: nevermind that the US got pissed when democracy actually worked in Turkey when the majority rejected Billions of US money in exchange for support during the war, nevermind the fact that the US continues to sideline a democraticaly elected leader in the middle east itself, its not important, Bush made a hollow speech to drag back in the patriotic doubters and its working.

For those less up on middle east politics I am of course talking about US anger when a democraticaly elected government in the middle east rejected 30 billion US dollar promised by the Bush cabinet in exchange for use of their land to wage part of the assault againstIraq, the second part deals with the constant denounciation of a leader who was democraticaly chosen in free and fair elections(according to the US) in the middle east, the man in question of course being Yasser Arafat.

As for the immigrant comments, youre on an extremely slippery slope there, spiralling downwards to straight out rascism.

[Master]

Small plug for Holland:

They train great Kickboxers there too...

[Lhadatt]

As for the immigrant comments, youre on an extremely slippery slope there, spiralling downwards to straight out rascism.

That's asinine. "Don't you dare talk bad about our immigrants, you racist!"

Talking about immigration problems has nothing to do with race. I don't know exactly what sort of immigration policies or situation your country is facing (perhaps you and Stone should elaborate on it), but there are very serious long-term negative ramnifications if immigration is not controlled properly.

I know it might be difficult for you to talk about it without using the racism ploy to cover up difficencies in your own argument, but you can at least give it a shot.

[Almaci]

That's asinine. "Don't you dare talk bad about our immigrants, you racist!"

Talking about immigration problems has nothing to do with race. I don't know exactly what sort of immigration policies or situation your country is facing (perhaps you and Stone should elaborate on it), but there are very serious long-term negative ramnifications if immigration is not controlled properly.

I know it might be difficult for you to talk about it without using the racism ploy to cover up difficencies in your own argument, but you can at least give it a shot.

Sorry if I was a lil too defensive with my comments.
Stone however jumped in and used Immigrants as an argument witouth providing any background as to who and why, as one myself I felt insulted by his comments wich at no time whatsoever ever indicated that he even has the slightest clue about what immigration problems Belgium might or might not be facing.
yet he used it as an argument in a discusion he is clearly losing, if not lost a long time ago.

[PaCrappa]

" Hey, everyone else, you may actually want to read the text of the speech."

There comes a point where I just stop listening to people who have been confirmed as liars. George Bush can talk all he wants. His actions have spoken quite loudly and no mere words are going to fix that. Sorry.

Pa

[Kenshin]

You've got benefits, we've got a higher GDP.

Which pretty much sums up the current US state of mind: "It's all about the Benjamins."