The Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King

[MarsVolta]

To clarify the fate of Legolas & Gimli: Gimli sets up a kingdom in the caves below Helm's Deep, I think. Legolas eventually builds a ship to travel to Valinor, and takes Gimli with him - the only dwarf to ever travel there.

I interpret Valinor as Heaven.

Yes that is true. Legolas builds a ship and with him he takes Gimli. When they left Middle-Earth, they were the last of the Fellowship to leave or die. So that ends all of the tales of the Fellowship of the Ring.

[MechDeus]

2 weeks? I thought the whole story took place in about 2 - 4 weeks.

14 months.

PROTIP: Sam says how long it took at the end of RotK when they return to the Shire.

[Curtis]

How did Frodo go from two seconds away from passing out to going at full speed? Will; The same thing that got him to Mordor to begin with. If you say that, after going through everything they went through, you can't see how he could push himself like that, then it's not the movie's fault that it didn't affect you - You didn't let it. That's one of the simplest things I've seen hurled at the flick in this thread - it speaks for itself.

The characters fit too nicely into their molds? Well, they only had one choice and it's still a hell of a choice to make. We had two entire movies where Aragorn was strugling with what he knew he had to become, and simply not wanting it. Then we see him finally brushing aside is selfishness and fear. Yeah, he came along a bit. Some will say that he didn't have a choice, but often times it's far easier to push yourself back in your hole than to rise to the occasion. I know that, and I think we all do. If you don't, then you haven't lived... But it's nice to know you've read a few books on the subject.

Evil wasn't supposed to have such a clear face, because the focus was not on the struggle with the big bad, but the internal struggle of those destined to fight it. As lengthy as the dialogue was, most of this was conveyed through simple facial expressions, thankfully leaving behind internal monologue in the form of voiceover. I'm sorry if you missed it.

And I guess I'm done with my rant. My only qualms with the movies were, as YAWA said already, they were so hacked up and the extended cuts that really fleshed out the characters were left behind. Heh, Jackson should have directed and let Tarantino edit. Also, I would have liked "Ring O' Fire" to play during the Mt. Doom scene.

But maybe I'm just an asshole.

[BioMechanic]

Anyone who had any sense of power couldn't have carried the ring. Gandalf couldn't, Gwahir (The head Eagle) couldn't, Aragorn couldn't, no one with the slightest thirst of power and control could possible withstand the ring’s corruption. It took a hobbit, a simple little man who knew of nothing but ale, feasting, and gardening to carry the ring. It took a hobbit to carry the very weapon of the enemy, the most powerful thing in middle earth, because a hobbit doesn't want power. All they want is to be at home in their little hobbit holes with a pint of ale. And even then, the ring corrupted Frodo. Anyone else wouldn't have made it to the black gate before their allusions of grandeur thrust the ring on their finger and they marched right into the black tower and handed it over to their new master.

You're touching on what I think is one of the important themes of the story. I think what Tolkien is trying to say is that technology & industry corrupt absolutely. The Ring is a symbol for material possessions - it makes one obsess and can make one "invisible." Hobbits tend to be naive when it comes to materialism, which made them perfect for their role in the story. While they can technically be criticized by others who "know better", in the end it's them who end up saving everything. This is why the Scouring of the Shire is such an important sequence in the books, because evil hits them at home and they have to shed their old ways, but in the end it still doesn't change them. The exception is Frodo, who had the Ring for so long that even he finally gave in to its constant temptation (Bilbo almost did - he resisted only because he didn't constantly bear the Ring, but he obssessed about it until the end). He needed outside interference to finally rid himself of it, and what a brilliant twist when it's actually Gollum who does it. The utterly corrupted ends up destroying the corruptor. (It happens again with Wormtongue and Saruman). Tolkien made hobbits a physically small race on purpose, but they are the largest in stature and worth.

edit: One more thing about Bilbo - when he gave up the Ring, he finally began to age, and to die. You see it in the film, but it's not really explained that Bilbo looked remarkably young for his age (eleventy-one!) among hobbits before he left on his last journey to Rivendell - a topic of much gossip among other hobbits. During the siege of Minas Tirith, Gandalf tells Pippen death is not to be feared....but it is feared by those who cling so tightly to material things, because death means the end of these things.

Sauron & Saruman gain their power by destroying natural processes and twisting them to their liking, and by using natural resources to build tools of war. Threats are used for teamwork rather than the brotherhood of men, elves, and dwarves (which I personally interpret as metaphors for human ethnic groups). The Ents are just about as literal a metaphor as you can get for nature taking revenge against "the fires of industry." Treebeard says about Saruman, "He no longer cares for growing things" because Saruman will do anything to get the Ring for himself. And the Elves, who embody ancient mysticism, leave the land because "their time is over." The Age of Man has begun.

For the most part, these themes are kind of watered down in the films, but they are addressed, which was very nice to see. However, they are much stronger in the books, so people who didn't read them first may have missed them.

If you enjoyed the films but haven't read the books, I really recommend you do so. There's a lot of substance that was passed over, and understandably so.

[Gutsman]

I'm with diffusion, I think it's probably the greatest film ever made in terms of raw spectacle and emotion, and I'm one of the most cynical movie critics there are. I've hated almost everything from Matrix Revolutions to Ep 1&2 to Xmen but ROTK was able to bring out the child in me, the one who can still be amazed and touched by a movie. I've read the book, and to be still so engrossed in the movie, even knowing what's going to happen, is proof of the film maker's skill. IMHO Hollywood hasn't made great films like this since The Ten Commandments or Spartacus (and those films weren't based on original stories either, hmm I wonder if that's a pattern...)

[BioMechanic]

Building off that, Gutsman, is the fact that these films can't really be considered only art-house or cult successes because they've made huge, huge stacks of money. It shows what Hollywood really is capable of when the filmmakers and everyone involved care about the project - even though the quality of the source material has a lot to do with it, the filmmakers still have to care and believe enough in it to make it work.

When the project was first announced, a lot of people thought New Line was taking a risk (and before Fellowship was released, I agreed), and look what happened.

[Despair]

LOL... Despair was dissapointed with ROTK...

what a fucking surprise.

I guess Equilibrium was better, right?

Despair, your taste in movies is beyond horrible. You know nothing about the craft and you know nothing about what makes a good movie. It's been plainly obvious for a long long time now, but this seals the deal. You're just completely clueless on the topic. It would be great if you stopped acting or thinking like you enjoy film.

Oh, by the way, I saw it for the 2nd time today. It's still the best movie ever made. If you don't like ROTK you are a fucking idiot. End of story. I will hear no other opinion.

So I cant be somwhat dissapointed in film now? I guess its a crime, cause Diffusion said so. FUck you man. Where does it says that everyone has to like what YOU like, and if not they have no taste whatsoever. Its really obnoxious.

You liked ROTK more power to you. You think its best movie ever great. Doesnt mean I have to think the same.

Anyway, I still respect ROTK, which is still a good movie. But I guess you can be dissapointed, without Diffusion coming in and starting his usual routine.

[Diff-chan]

No, I dont care about people who dissent from my opinion Despair (however ROTK is the one exception). Obviously people have different opinions, whatever, that's cool.

However, its a simple fact you have horrible taste in movies. You are the Korian of the movie thread. In fact, you're far far worse than that. And it's not like I am saying this out of nowhere, Ive said it to you countless times and Ive meant it each and every time. This is just more proof of this fact. You dont have any taste in movies, you never did and you certainly dont know. I didnt expect you to like ROTK actually.

Anyway, dont let this derail the thread.

[Mzo]

You're touching on what I think is one of the important themes of the story. I think what Tolkien is trying to say is that technology & industry corrupt absolutely. The Ring is a symbol for material possessions - it makes one obsess and can make one "invisible." Hobbits tend to be naive when it comes to materialism, which made them perfect for their role in the story. While they can technically be criticized by others who "know better", in the end it's them who end up saving everything. This is why the Scouring of the Shire is such an important sequence in the books, because evil hits them at home and they have to shed their old ways, but in the end it still doesn't change them. The exception is Frodo, who had the Ring for so long that even he finally gave in to its constant temptation (Bilbo almost did - he resisted only because he didn't constantly bear the Ring, but he obssessed about it until the end). He needed outside interference to finally rid himself of it, and what a brilliant twist when it's actually Gollum who does it. The utterly corrupted ends up destroying the corruptor. (It happens again with Wormtongue and Saruman). Tolkien made hobbits a physically small race on purpose, but they are the largest in stature and worth.

edit: One more thing about Bilbo - when he gave up the Ring, he finally began to age, and to die. You see it in the film, but it's not really explained that Bilbo looked remarkably young for his age (eleventy-one!) among hobbits before he left on his last journey to Rivendell - a topic of much gossip among other hobbits. During the siege of Minas Tirith, Gandalf tells Pippen death is not to be feared....but it is feared by those who cling so tightly to material things, because death means the end of these things.

Sauron & Saruman gain their power by destroying natural processes and twisting them to their liking, and by using natural resources to build tools of war. Threats are used for teamwork rather than the brotherhood of men, elves, and dwarves (which I personally interpret as metaphors for human ethnic groups). The Ents are just about as literal a metaphor as you can get for nature taking revenge against "the fires of industry." Treebeard says about Saruman, "He no longer cares for growing things" because Saruman will do anything to get the Ring for himself. And the Elves, who embody ancient mysticism, leave the land because "their time is over." The Age of Man has begun.

For the most part, these themes are kind of watered down in the films, but they are addressed, which was very nice to see. However, they are much stronger in the books, so people who didn't read them first may have missed them.

If you enjoyed the films but haven't read the books, I really recommend you do so. There's a lot of substance that was passed over, and understandably so.

;_;

That was fucking beautiful, seriously. You just reminded me why I enjoyed the books so much and why these action movies left me a bit cold.

I've hated almost everything from Matrix Revolutions to Ep 1&2 to Xmen

Congratulations, you hate shitty movies. Welcome to my world.

However, its a simple fact you have horrible taste in movies. You are the Korian of the movie thread. In fact, you're far far worse than that. And it's not like I am saying this out of nowhere, Ive said it to you countless times and Ive meant it each and every time. This is just more proof of this fact. You dont have any taste in movies, you never did and you certainly dont know. I didnt expect you to like ROTK actually.

Just because you enjoy a movie and find it entertaining, that does not make it a good film. You can have differing opinions on what you personally enjoy, but not on what good film-making is. Not to mean any disrespect, Despair, but you enjoyed a lot of movies I would consider shit. I understand why, though (because they're action-packed and entertaining), but that's not enough for everybody.

I'm going to read the trilogy again, and whenever they come out with some sort of complete DVD box set, I'll buy it and watch the 2nd and 3rd movies I never saw.

[MarsVolta]

You're touching on what I think is one of the important themes of the story. I think what Tolkien is trying to say is that technology & industry corrupt absolutely. The Ring is a symbol for material possessions - it makes one obsess and can make one "invisible." Hobbits tend to be naive when it comes to materialism, which made them perfect for their role in the story. While they can technically be criticized by others who "know better", in the end it's them who end up saving everything. This is why the Scouring of the Shire is such an important sequence in the books, because evil hits them at home and they have to shed their old ways, but in the end it still doesn't change them. The exception is Frodo, who had the Ring for so long that even he finally gave in to its constant temptation (Bilbo almost did - he resisted only because he didn't constantly bear the Ring, but he obssessed about it until the end). He needed outside interference to finally rid himself of it, and what a brilliant twist when it's actually Gollum who does it. The utterly corrupted ends up destroying the corruptor. (It happens again with Wormtongue and Saruman). Tolkien made hobbits a physically small race on purpose, but they are the largest in stature and worth.

edit: One more thing about Bilbo - when he gave up the Ring, he finally began to age, and to die. You see it in the film, but it's not really explained that Bilbo looked remarkably young for his age (eleventy-one!) among hobbits before he left on his last journey to Rivendell - a topic of much gossip among other hobbits. During the siege of Minas Tirith, Gandalf tells Pippen death is not to be feared....but it is feared by those who cling so tightly to material things, because death means the end of these things.

Sauron & Saruman gain their power by destroying natural processes and twisting them to their liking, and by using natural resources to build tools of war. Threats are used for teamwork rather than the brotherhood of men, elves, and dwarves (which I personally interpret as metaphors for human ethnic groups). The Ents are just about as literal a metaphor as you can get for nature taking revenge against "the fires of industry." Treebeard says about Saruman, "He no longer cares for growing things" because Saruman will do anything to get the Ring for himself. And the Elves, who embody ancient mysticism, leave the land because "their time is over." The Age of Man has begun.

For the most part, these themes are kind of watered down in the films, but they are addressed, which was very nice to see. However, they are much stronger in the books, so people who didn't read them first may have missed them.

If you enjoyed the films but haven't read the books, I really recommend you do so. There's a lot of substance that was passed over, and understandably so.

Very well put man. That is an excellent interpretation of the theme for LOTR. Like you said, Saruman states "the fires of industry will take hold and we will fight the war with the sword the spear and the iron fist of the orc", or some variation of that. This really puts his cause for the destruction of all that is pure and good into perspective. Also, Treebeard says that Saruman, "has no love for things that grow", or nature if you will in TTT. These parts do not directly address what you are saying, but for those of us that have read the books, you can tell it touches on the subject that you have said is a theme. I agree with you on your point.