Hopefully just a rumor concerning SEGA/Xbox support.....

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by gamevet
Skill isn't exactly what one would need to play a game like PGR. Play F355 and then see how hollow the gameplay is in PGR.

Did I say F355 was unskilled? No, it's the most skilled racer there is, the point I was making was in reference to the videogame gameplay aspect of bouncing off walls and cars, which takes no skill at all to use to your advantage.

Bumping other cars, and using the walls to your advantage make the game more enjoyable.

And that requires skill? Hardly.

Racing around a square track is not my idea of fun.

Same here, and many of the tracks aren't square. At least they weren't in MSR...

Daytona did'nt become the most popular arcade racing game ever, by being boring and without a feeling of challenge from the cars on the track. Maybe if PGR provided more than racing againxt a clock, and 3 other cars, it would be a little more exciting.

So if PGR had racing against other cars, which you also stated it does, and didn't have racing against the clock, which Daytona also has, then it would be...? Sorry, I don't follow.

As for me, I never felt challenged by the clock, just the other cars. But maybe that's just me.

[gamevet]

Originally posted by MechDeus
1)Did I say F355 was unskilled? No, it's the most skilled racer there is, the point I was making was in reference to the videogame gameplay aspect of bouncing off walls and cars, which takes no skill at all to use to your advantage.
And that requires skill? Hardly.



2)Same here, and many of the tracks aren't square. At least they weren't in MSR...


3)As for me, I never felt challenged by the clock, just the other cars. But maybe that's just me.

1) No, you did'nt say F355 was unskilled. You just make some smart ass comment about skill required in a racer. Bouncing off the wall and other cars, can be used as a strategic advantage in some racers(Gran Tourismo, Daytona, F355, and Ridge Racer). Watch some real car races, and you'll see some of these strategies come to play, especially in Nascar and F1 racing.

2) I feel that PGR is'nt a game which requires a high level of driving skill, nor does racing 3 other cars feel challenging. The first coarse in PGR and MSR are sqaure, and the game is made by the same company. The 2 games are very much alike, and are average at best.


3) PGR is more about what you do with your own car, than the other cars. Style points and the clock, boring!

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by gamevet

Skill isn't exactly what one would need to play a game like PGR. Play F355 and then see how hollow the gameplay is in PGR.

Unless you can handle all those tight New York tracks without hitting walls, I don't want to hear any noise about how PGR doesn't take skill. And I friggin' hate F355. It's more like math than a racer.

Racing against a clock is not my idea of a fun racer

Then what do you call all professional racing?

Bumping other cars, and using the walls to your advantage make the game more enjoyable.

Neither of which are things you can do in F355, and both feature prominently in PGR.

Racing around a square track is not my idea of fun. Daytona did'nt become the most popular arcade racing game ever, by being boring and without a feeling of challenge from the cars on the track. Maybe if PGR provided more than racing againxt a clock, and 3 other cars, it would be a little more exciting. Eye candy does not make a game fun. PGR is just Test Drive 5 with a few more options.

PGR's tracks are WAY more varied than Daytona's, which fit more closely into the "square track" mold, since NASCAR is mostly made up of ovals and single dog leg tracks. There's almost 200 TRACKS in PGR, which come in all shapes and sizes.

PGR is about mastering the game's driving engine, Daytona's about learning the tracks. You can pretty much drive a straight racing line without having to worry about the other cars in Daytona once you have the tracks down; I think you're overstating the role of the other cars in that game, especially since the tracks are much wider than PGR's. Both are great games, but PGR's driving physics are alot more complex - Daytona basically boils down to whether you have to decelerate to 175 or 135 on a turn before nailing the gas. PGR gives you options as to what style of driving you use - powersliding isn't a necessity, and there are a few viable wys to do it. Both are excellent games, but I'm tempted to give PGR the edge, but I won't since I only own MSR.

Test Drive 5 doesn't even belong in the same thought as Daytona or PGR - it's a gimmick game that tries desperately to compete with Gran Tursimo. It has sloppy controls, no sense of style and a much shallower and less thought-out control scheme than PGR, which is really where MSR/PGR's beauty lies - they may well the best feel of any arcade racer, including the mighty R4.

[Tracer]

Test Drive Le Mans ownz j00!

ºTracer

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by gamevet



1) No, you did'nt say F355 was unskilled. You just make some smart ass comment about skill required in a racer. Bouncing off the wall and other cars, can be used as a strategic advantage in some racers(Gran Tourismo, Daytona, F355, and Ridge Racer). Watch some real car races, and you'll see some of these strategies come to play, especially in Nascar and F1 racing.

Look Gamevet, you seem like a good guy, but making things up doesn't help your case. You never see F-1 drivers ramming into each other on purpose - doing so will get you banned from the sport. And bouncing off walls? First off, how exactly would you do that in an open-wheel race? And walls are usually a few feet back from the track, so you'd have to go out of your way to hit them anyway. Pro racing has little to do with the other cars, for the most part - after a few dozen laps everyone is so spread out that for the most part you're just going for the cleanest racing line - car on car battles only occur in isolated parts of the race.

As for NASCAR...first off, I'm not even sure that's real racing (why the hell would you want to watch someone drive a Chevy friggin' Lumina in a circle for three hours when you could see a Ferrari F-1 take on Monaco?) but even still, "using the walls" is how the nastiest accidents happen, and is never done on purpose. Yeah, the cars will bump each other, ("rubbin' is racin'!") but bouncing off a brick wall at 200 mph won't give you any sort of "advantage" in real life.

2) I feel that PGR is'nt a game which requires a high level of driving skill,

Well, it is an arcade racer. Comparing it F-1 World Grand Prix and saying it doesn't take as much skill is like saying Contra sucks because it isn't as complex as Rainbow 6.

nor does racing 3 other cars feel challenging.

You're right - racing 5 other versions of the same car in F355 is such a huge dfference.

The first coarse in PGR and MSR are sqaure,

The first of 96 in MSR, which are clearly labelled "training" and the first of almost 200 in PGR - as I said in my previous post, they get much more complex. Look, play the games for more than five minutes before knocking them. If you haven't seen the third or fourth track you unlock in MSR, then it's not really fair for you to say...

The 2 games are very much alike, and are average at best.

Myself and almost every professional reviewer known to man disagree with you. Actually play the games, then you can feel free to criticise all you want.

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by TracerBullet
Test Drive Le Mans ownz j00!

ºTracer

TD LeMans is excellent - I'd say that and V-Rally are the best TD games by a country mile and a half. But TD's still not a strict technical racer (it just feels like it at times), and I still prefer R4, Rage Racer and Daytona over it...

[MechDeus]

Well, bliggity. I was going to say some things regarding his response, but StriderKyo beat to all of those and then some.

As far as F1 racing goes, I'm not so sure that trying to bounce off other cars would get you banned so much as you would scare yourself s***less after flipping your car over a few times (and possibly your opponents as well) at that speed to never come close to another car again.

Bouncing off cars and walls in RL is very dangerous and very, very stupid. The main reason it's regulated to being performed in videogames is because many racing games where you can do that they did not implement the physics of crashing. In fact, the only street car-based racer I can think of that has is Burnout, and you'll learn real quick not to touch other cars (though it does allow for some grinding and nudging of opponents).

This was also one of the reasons I ended up not playing GT anymore, because races ended up one of two ways: a car so powerful it leaves all others in its dust with almost no hope of anyone catching up, or you just bounce off everything all day to win. Those two strategies allowed me to dominate in parts 1 and 2, and I never bothered with GT3 since I heard it didn't add anything to change that (really, add anything to the main portion of the game, but I digress).

It's the AI that determines how good the opponents are, not their number. Most of the hardest races in games are against a single opponent (which the game usually tunes as insanely good), I really couldn't care less about the number of my opponents, just how good they are. Right now, I'm rather enjoying challenging myself with no opponents (Burnout Survival mode), that's damned fun.

[Tracer]

I'd hate TD:LM were it a full on technical racer. I hold it in the same vein as Super GT and R4... just with it's own twist and style which I find refreshing. Melborne House games should not be considered with the rest of Infogrammes racing line. MH is pinnacle, Infogrammes otherwise is ass.

GT3 does what it does better than anyother game - only Sega GT gives it chase and only in one portion of it... the rest is a pathetic mess IMO. OK, F355 does one thing better than GT3. Realism. StriderKyo is right - F355 is more like Math than a game. The only good I got from it was learning how to drive a stick (it's good for that actually). I'll take Wipeout to them anyday of the week though

Other cars do have an effect on how you race in real life and it is implemented in many games (PGR, I think, is not one of them) and that's drafting. This is more relegated to Nascar games and a fancier and more unrealistic version of drafting is in place in Daytona (something truely hard to do on the DC version). But who cares about cars... racing against the clock is ALL that Rally racing is... a real man's sport! Colin MacRae all the way!

Speaking of Rally and being a good entertaining arcade style game at the same time - Rallisport Challange is a must own. Beyond eye candy - Rallisport is effectively what Sega Rally 3 would be if they would make it. Nothing but fun! Not as realistic as the come... but the Contra/Rainbow 6 analogy works here too.

V-Rally, BTW, I thought was far too lose... I dunno.. seemed clumsy to me.

ºTracer

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by MechDeus

As far as F1 racing goes, I'm not so sure that trying to bounce off other cars would get you banned so much as you would scare yourself s***less after flipping your car over a few times (and possibly your opponents as well) at that speed to never come close to another car again.

It's against FIA statutes, the governing body for F-1 as well as homolgated touring car and GT racing. Any driver who can be shown to be willfully trying to ram someone else off the road can be banned for life. Usually they just get a stern warning; it's not something a driver will do, although there are plenty of drivers who will try to force out an opponent in a turn - they're generally considered dirty. But still, that's not the same thing as actually bumping into the other guy which, you're right, can result in a wheel lock and serious crash.

[kabuki]

Originally posted by Ammadeau

Heck, I'll buy the Buffy game if it turns out to be worth it, looking good so far, and I hate that damn TV show.

Buffy seasons 1-5 rocked. This season it sucks, but damn you Ammadeau for hating Buffy seasons 1-5 !!!!!

Originally posted by burgundy

Mainstream gamers play EA. Period.

And EA games (post Skitchin') have all sucked . Period. Except for Sled Storm 1 and SSX Tricky. Period.


Again, the majority of Xbox haters out there are the people who don't own one. If you someone gave you an Xbox system, JSRF, GunValkyrie, DoA3, Halo, and Project Gotham you'd all shit yourselves with glee.

Maybe some day you system-haters will come to your senses.
- Kabuki