The Passion of the Christ

[Super-Eggroll]

I'd much rather see this movie -- http://fun.tmc.dyn.ee/kungfujesus.asf

"But when Jesus is framed for selling drugs, he must fight to prove his innocence, and now the FBI is after him...."

[Dyne]

i didnt even know about this movie until the dianne sawyer shit was plastered everywhere. so is this a full length theatrical release then?

[Scourge]

I think AstroBlue and sleeveboy are wayyyyy overreacting about this movie. Let me temper my next statements with the facts that a) I'm not a Christian and b) I don't believe in God. The basic tenant of the Christian belief is that Jesus died for the sins of man, to forgive them, to save them. In that light, it doesn't matter who killed Jesus because, and I'm sure this will get taken the wrong way, the death of Jesus is a POSITIVE THING. It just so happens that in the New Testament, Jews were involved; it also just so happens that Jesus' apostles were Jews converted to Christianity, therefore the leap of logic that all Jews are responsible for his death is fallacious, especially when it is commonly expressed that certain Pharasees were responsible, which in itself was a sect of Jew, not the Jews as a people, and even the Catholic church gives credit to the Pharisees for opening the way for Christianity through establishing a monontheistic system and whatnot. And it was the Pharisees that established strict fundamentalist following of Mosaic law which in turn filtered down to what is modern Judaism - the point being that I think it's hypocritical for someone who holds their faith so dear to tell someone else that their faith should basically shut the hell up about the single most significant event in the New Testament, and if someone has no religious persuasion, then why should this film bother them, other than just hatred of the faith and the people who practice it; hatred, real nice.

And as for Gibson, he makes the distinction in the movie that it's not the Jewish people on the whole and he also publicly has said that the death of Christ is celebratory because of what it signifies to Christians and that's why he made the film. Also, it can be noted that in the film the hand that has the nail driven through it is Gibson's and the hand shown driving the nail in is Gibson's, done because of Gibson's belief that Christ died for him and because of him. As for the violence and gore, I think crucifixion by its very nature is violent and gorey.

I don't understand how it's fine to be so hateful and vidictive towards a man because of his devout Christianity because of an assumption that there's any hatefulness and vidictiveness on his part about someone else's faith, when he's said over and over and over that that's just not the case.

[AstroBlue]

the point being that I think it's hypocritical for someone who holds their faith so dear to tell someone else that their faith should basically shut the hell up about the single most significant event in the New Testament, and if someone has no religious persuasion, then why should this film bother them, other than just hatred of the faith and the people who practice it; hatred, real nice.

I don't think anyone was advocating the censorship of Christ's death. Read our posts again, you've missed the point.

I don't understand how it's fine to be so hateful and vidictive towards a man because of his devout Christianity because of an assumption that there's any hatefulness and vidictiveness on his part about someone else's faith, when he's said over and over and over that that's just not the case.

I don't hate Mel. I just am extremely cynical about a man who is a member of a small right-wing religious sect making a movie for mass consumption. I am cynical about everything Mel says because of what is at stake if he said anything otherwise. Colour me cynical.

[Fe 26]

We all know how this is going to end, considering how the US bombed England after the release of BraveHeart, and the release of The Patriot.

[Tracer]

So yeah, a movie about Jesus' last days, oh boy... The horror!!! It's bullshit cause if Hollywood wasn't afraid of a Christian mob when it presented sacrilegious material like Jesus Christ Superstar, or when NEA presented Virgin Mary in a portrait made of dung and a crucifix in urine, designed to deliberately offend Christians (with their tax dollars), that says something... Aside from free expression is ok when you make movies or art that offends Christians.

Poor misrepresented and undermined christians. Life is so unfair.

[burgundy]

MarsVolta, dont be dumb, Jewish leaders are upset because the film may spark a new wave of anti-semitism because "Jews killed Jesus". They have voiced their concern over how the Jews are portrayed here. With the world being what it is, and anti-semitic attacks on the rise in certain countries, I think it's a valid concern.

Its not simply about avoiding the movie if it offends you, its about what the wrong/unbalanced people will do after watching it.

You have to be fucking kidding me.

This movie is a load of crap.

Those of you who don't understand why this movie is such a joke haven't been keeping up with centuries of pogroms, Passion plays, violence, murder, and the "blood libel."

To think that people are STILL falling for this literal-minded garbage sickens me.

Fuck Mel Gibson and his Nazi father.

Let's ban the Bible while we're at it, shall we?

The Vatican II reforms made this distinction, and Mel Gibson and his father Hutton are a part of an "order" that denounce the Vatican II reforms of the modern Catholic church. Therefore by default they believe all Jews should burden the guilt of the Christ's death, simply because they are the decendent's of some "narrow minded" people.

That's news to me. If this is what the controversy is about, I guess I can kind of see it.

If it's coming from Christians who are concerned about the light this film casts on their faith.

nobody who sees this movie is goign to suddenly be magically turned into an anti-semite, people who already hold these views may look to this movie, but its like saying since unbalanced people who play grand theft auto 3 may be incited to commit crimes, we shoudl censor gta 3, entertainment is not a babysitter and it shoudl not be treated as such, the fact that an extreme group will be incited to violence, beyond being unproveable, is not the responsability of the entertainment industry.

Agreed.

He didn't have to make Pilate a sympathetic character, he didn't have to lay all the blame on Caiaphas, he didn't have to suggest that Pilate was pressured into killing Jesus by the Jews, he could have just made a neutral film about the Passion, but that's not what he did. So he can, you know, eat a dick.

And how are you saying that's not how it went down? Historical revisionism sucks.

But there's a big difference in saying "Jews killed Christ" and "men who were Jews killed Christ". One's bigotry, the other is the truth. It's the subcontext of the imagery that's dangerous.

There is nothing false about "Jews killed Christ."

---

The apocalypse must be near if I'm agreeing 100% with frostwolf in a thread about religion.

Time to repent, I suppose.

[AstroBlue]

And how are you saying that's not how it went down? Historical revisionism sucks.

But nobody knows how it went down; the best thing we have is like a secondary source, of a secondary source, of a secondary a source.

There is nothing false about "Jews killed Christ."

Depends if you see it as a contraction of "The Jews killed Christ" or not.

[burgundy]

It doesn't matter if the Bible is an accurate representation of history, because whether it is totally true, partly true or total bullshit, from the standpoint of Christianity it is, by definition, true. The real question should be, "Is Passion a fair and accurate representation of the Gospel?" I have yet to read anything that says that it isn't.

There's no interpreting it "as a contraction." According to the Bible, Jews killed Christ. I don't know what other bullshit the Vatican claimed and retracted since, but I know of nothing in the Bible that specifically blames Jews as a race for the death of Christ. And considering that Jews have a special place carved out during the end days according to Revelation - and the entire Old Testament is about how the Jews are God's chosen people - any suggestion that the Bible is anti-Semetic is FUCKING INSANE.

[AstroBlue]

It doesn't matter if the Bible is an accurate representation of history, because whether it is totally true, partly true or total bullshit, from the standpoint of Christianity it is, by definition, true. The real question should be, "Is Passion a fair and accurate representation of the Gospel?" I have yet to read anything that says that it isn't.

Yep, excellent point.

There's no interpreting it "as a contraction."

Nope. "The Jews killed Christ" means the whole race/religion killed Christ, in formal English you can drop the "The" so it's just "Jews killed Christ", but the meaning stays the same.

All those that killed Christ were Jews.
But not all Jews killed Christ.

As I said before, it's a big difference.

According to the Bible, Jews killed Christ. I don't know what other bullshit the Vatican claimed and retracted since, but I know of nothing in the Bible that specifically blames Jews as a race for the death of Christ. And considering that Jews have a special place carved out during the end days according to Revelation - and the entire Old Testament is about how the Jews are God's chosen people - any suggestion that the Bible is anti-Semetic is FUCKING INSANE.

Of course the Bible isn't anti-Semetic, no one said it was.

http://historicaltextarchive.com/sec...ticle&artid=76

Regarding Jewish guilt for Jesus' death, the Declaration asserts that "...authorities of the Jews and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ." "Still," it continues, "what happened in His passion cannot be blamed upon all the Jews then living, without distinction, nor upon the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as repudiated or cursed by God, as if such views followed from the Holy Scriptures."

Gee, what horrible reforms