Anti-Gay Marriage Constitutional Amendments?

[Lobo]

I never said it was natural, I just said that commen sence was around before religion.

By saying this you're going by the concept that religion did not exist at all periods of human existance and there's really no way you can know that. In one way or another it has always seemed that humans believed in a higher power.

A higher power isn't necessarily a deity. It could be a scientific law, or the concept that fire brings warmth.

[burgundy]

Actually that ammendment is making it so the government can't set up a nation wide religion. It has nothing to do with "seperation of church and state". It's been twisted to mean that but it doesn't.

The First Amendment does call for a separation of church and state in a literal sense. However, you're correct in that it doesn't prohibit the government from creating laws from concepts based on religion. I don't think laws should be based on religious principles, but I'm not the Constitution.

Anyone who opposes gay marriage bans on First Amendment grounds is wrong. The real issue is whether such a ban would violate the equal protection clause of the Fifth Amendment (or in the case of state laws, the Fourteenth.)

And if an amendment is passed...an amendment cannot be unconstitutional because it is the Constitution.

I still dont see this part about the church not being allowed to affect government. I still think its being twisted to say that. It doesn't directly set it up. People believe it implies it but it deosn't.
If Gay marriage is made legal so be it...the world is just moving closer to destruction. What I get mad about is what is happening in California where that mayor directly breaks the law and nothing is done. If you want gay marriage you have to have patience till its passed. (if it is)

Without absolutes there is only chaos. Religion sets up absolutes. Without a code of morality the country will decline rapidly.
Our country was founded on the basis of a religion..to completely remove religion from government you would need to remove all the laws because where does morality stem from? religion.

I agree with your first sentence. Kinda. I don't think the church as an organization can affect the government but that doesn't mean religious priniciples can not guide it.

The mayor of SF is breaking a law he sees as violating the state constitution. He's not just being a maverick.

There's no reason gay marriage violates any necessary code of morals.

[Captain Vegetable]

What the Hell are we doing talking about Evolution in a thread about gay marriage?

Knock it the Hell off. I can't believe I got sucked into it.

[Damian79]

I never said it was natural, I just said that commen sence was around before religion.

So what exactly are you trying to say? People use "common sense" too broadly. Are you saying that people learned not to steal before religion? This is kind of a grey area. Group mentality exists in the animal kingdom exists naturally, however so do killing each other if they need to.... I don't think much has changed.

[burgundy]

That's a good point (assuming you're serious), the funny thing I see with Atheists and the like is why the hell do you follow any system of morales whatsoever? There's no consquences in a lot of cases and life is short. If I wasn't a Christian and I believed Darwinism in-depth I would probably barricade myself in my house and kill a shitload of people, if I survive then it's cool but if I die what was the point of my existance anyway? I guess maybe I'm just a little crazy and my ties with faith keep me in line...but who knows.

Because I care enough about the people around me and because I'm curious enough about the next sixty years.

That's what's holding me back, basically.

[AstroBlue]

What the Hell are we doing talking about Evolution in a thread about gay marriage?

Knock it the Hell off. I can't believe I got sucked into it.

*points to Gohron*

I wasn't completely serious but my point was that according to evolution our society and existance is nothing by randomness and there's no real intelligence in it so why conform to any morales at all, in the end wouldn't this lead to the destruction of our species?

*blinks innocently*

[burgundy]

morales

morale =/= moral

[Lobo]

So what exactly are you trying to say? People use "common sense" too broadly. Are you saying that people learned not to steal before religion? This is kind of a grey area. Group mentality exists in the animal kingdom exists naturally, however so do killing each other if they need to.... I don't think much has changed.

I'm saying that people don't need a religion to make rational, and in the sense of society, "morally just" decisions. I believe those come about naturally through evolution, not from just being told to do so by a chosen deity.

[Gohron]

Haha, sorry for de-railing the thread guys, that wasn't my original intention.

[Master of 7s]

How are your grandparent being mocked? Because they're being compared to sinful, dirty faggots?

I emphasize because these are your words not mine. Get off your high-horse and know what you're talking about before you speak cause right now you sound like an insensitive idiot.

And what I'm talking about is how my grandparents' struggle for equality is being used as a damned leveraging tool to push some fucking political agenda while completely disregarding the pain, suffering and emotional baggage that came with it. I've talked at length and in depth to my parents and grandparents about the days of Jim Crow laws and all the other government sanctioned bullshit that went on in those days.

You don't know that pain, I do. So kindly shut up.

Marriage isn't the only way homosexuals are discriminated against. You don't need to be a crybaby liberal to see that there is a long history of violence and prejudice against gays and lesbians.

Obviously. That wasn't my point. *points to above repsonse*