Iraq

[NightWolve]

I knew this video would bring out the computer chair chickenhawk cowards.

Can I support the war in Afganistan, or does that also make me a chickenhawk? Which wars can one support and not be a chickenhawk? I'm curious.

It sounds like you have Al Franken on the brain. Do you think about him a lot?

Probably not as much as you think about Sean Hannity and protesting the parroting of his "lying lies." But yeah, I think about him. I was quite fearful his new network and the O'Fraken Factor show would expose the lying lies of the right-wing vastness across the land and we'd be found out.

War isn't a fucking John Wayne movie.

Thanks for clearing that up. Everyone was confused and didn't think anyone would get killed in a war...

You'll make an excellent marine--easily manipulated.

You mean marines don't understand that their agenda is to kill people on behalf of the government/country when called to do so? There isn't a fineprint anywhere before you join up about that? Was Pat Tillman one of those easily manipulated in the aftermath of 9-11?

but does anyone think Berg might have been an undercover agent or something?

I wasn't sure what you meant by that, but CIA just confirmed the voice of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (big fish with $10 million on his head) in that video and Berg has a coincidental link to Zacarias Moussaoui. I dunno about being a spy, but there's something more here. If not, just another infidel Jew that could be made an example of.

[MVS]

I dunno about the Berg Theories.

You are right, there are a few oddities surrounding the story (FBI at his parents house, him held by US Military) that I'd be interested in learning more about (just like I need pictures of GI Jane Pulling A Train). Too early to tell, since facts are semi-lean now.

Either way, RIP to him.

I could be wrong but were there similar theories or rumors about Daniel Pearl? I could have sworn I read something about that and that it turned out that he was just a reporter and not CIA/etc.

[Matt]

When a group of individuals (Al Queda in this case) is planning to kill you, and has proven the means and the method to do so, yes, it is that black and white.

Right. Yet, our country also has the plans and the means to kill Muslims (which we are doing very effectively). Every time we bomb a village, shoot some hapless taxi driver, or beat an innocent prisoner, the numbers of those who hate us increase. When they attack us and dramatically kill our soldiers/workers, we go nuts and retaliate, killing a bunch of unfortunate bystanders and making them hate us even more. Now we're back to square one!

I do not understand how this is a black and white situation. Sounds to me like a big fucked up mess with no easy solution.

Somebody will probably reply to this with "yeah, but we're justified and they aren't". Probably true, but it doesn't matter in the end - people don't have a clear picture of who holds moral superiority when their children have just been killed and their hope of a future destroyed by an errant "smart bomb".

[Master of 7s]

I'm going to ask Strider to lay off the insults, since no on else has. I don't care how much MVS pissed you off, flinging cuss words and threats at him makes your argument lose all credibility.

Argue, but do NOT stoop to insults. This goes for all of you. *Points yardstick menacingly.

I already made this point, but since I'm a Christian my opinions don't mean anything.

[Melf]

I was referring to the mod squad.

[Mfkzt]

Thanks for clearing that up. Everyone was confused and didn't think anyone would get killed in a war...

Then why send Americans to die over what amounts to a massive lie? Putting your head in the sand while Americans are dying isn't very patriotic.

[bbobb]

I already made this point, but since I'm a Christian my opinions don't mean anything.

About time you figured that out.

[animegirl]

http://www.tshirthell.com/iraq.htm

Man this is one FUCKED up shirt!

[MVS]

Alex Jones Conspiracy man writes this on his site, http://infowars.com/index.html, make of it what you will:

1) extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor
regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

2) CNN poll question: "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any
remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?" Bush has been reported to be
struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional
torture photos. Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly
prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national
security" issues for witholding additional materials.

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue
(compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit). Either
he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and
all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to
change).

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited. Goes from a) Berg
sitting in chair talking about family, to b) Berg sitting on floor with
hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost
motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on
the same page. Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what
page he's on?

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still
alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would
have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's
clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible
blood on it.

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground. Although held down, Berg
would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly
dubbed in.

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information
about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a
positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his
identity". Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by
family.

I believe that Berg (or this lookalike character) was first killed (perhaps
by lethal injection, poisoning, etc.), then decapitated after dead (explains
lack of blood spraying everywhere). Berg was killed by Al-Quaeda (known to
be a CIA - Mossad joint venture). Berg video released at height of furor
over U.S. torture of Iraqis and just before Bush was to decide whether to
release additional torture videos. Now torture videos will be witheld from
public for reasons of national security. Now "patriots" everywhere will
laud the virtues of U.S. torture of "enemies". Sensitivity level of public
gets heightened in terms of what's acceptable treatment of prisoners.
Juxtaposed with decapitation, piling naked men into pyramid is nothing.
Such treatment will be considered more and more acceptable even in domestic
situations. George W. Bush sleeps well tonight while Berg family lives in
torture. Serves Berg's father right for opposing Bush and the war of
aggression against Iraq.

And a transcript from CNN:

O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right, now one final thought here. You did a very careful translation of your own, of the statement. And in it, you see no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. Explain how that happened.

NASR: Oh, I find it very interesting, because out of the blue, there is a mention of al Qaeda on the U.S. government translation. It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing."

My translation says: "Is there any excuse for the one who sits down and does nothing?" Basically they're telling people, you have no excuse for not doing anything, for not acting and defending Islam and so forth. Whereas the U.S. government translation has this factual error, I'm sure it's an honest mistake, but basically it sort of adds al Qaeda to the statement, which is not on the statement.

[Master of 7s]

About time you figured that out.

Quiet, ass.