Hollywood and game makers are becoming wary of each other.

[Dyne]

People's expectations regarding licensed games.

i dont think it can get any worse.

[Shin Johnpv]

Lithium's already touched on this but why should Atari be punished for making Enter the Matrix? That game made WB dumptrucks of money, which, regardless of what one's Marxist English prof would have one believe, is what drives this industry.

There's no way this will stand if it goes to court.

sure this one sold well but was horrible i highly doubt a sequel will do anywhere near as well

now if they had actually made a decent game the first time it might have sold well for the next game too its about looking at long term investments and not just the here and now

[Scourge]

How many licensed games sell like Enter the Matrix? Not too many. If a better game had been presented with the Matrix license attached it would have been just as good. You can't call Enter the Matrix anything but living off of the name of a famous franchise, which fans were hungry to have more of.

There's nothing wrong with publishers being stronghanded into taking the time to push their developers to make great pieces of work. It's about brand image, not just sales. Movie studios and companies need to do some research before handing out their properties as well. Acclaim may do well in the markets (or whatever), but any gamer who knows the industry would tell you how shitty Acclaim is... they have a reputation for shit quality games.

It's a good idea.

No, consumers are the best quality control. If something doesn't sell, then ammends by the developers in the shape of a better game next time at bat is how it should work. And if that doesn't happen, then they don't get work in the future. It's a shame that plenty of good games DON'T sell, but some games are made for small audiences. That isn't the case with licensed games. If they sell well, how can a studio threaten to charge more for licensing? If they sell poorly, maybe the studio should have gotten behind the developers more from the beginning to ensure quality control instead of coming in after the fact and saying "We read IGN's review. You owe us 15% more." What kind of b.s. is that?

Also, this whole thing seems more like a strong arm tactic against reviewers. It's somewhat true that well reviewed games are more likely to sell well than poorly reviewed ones, especially for popular franchises or licenses. How would you like the average bracket for reviewers to shift because they don't want to lose their fringe benefits or have some kind of professional guilt for sticking it to a dev crew who had short lead time and little up front money? Instead of:

1,2,3,4,5,[6,7,8],9,10

the bracket for average reviews would be:

1,2,3,4,5,6,[7,8,9],10

or somesuch.

Or worse, where reviewers with axes to grind lower the bracket:

1,2,3,4,[5,6,7],8,9,10

"Yeah, so and so is being a dick about sending us preview and review material. Fuck 'em."

The weight of responsibility in quality control shouldn't be so much in the hands of people who write reviews. They should be completely out of the loop.

[The_Meach]

Consumers are the best quality control.

Word. The Market knows.

[Captain Vegetable]

sure this one sold well but was horrible i highly doubt a sequel will do anywhere near as well

now if they had actually made a decent game the first time it might have sold well for the next game too its about looking at long term investments and not just the here and now

I like you, john. Really, I do. I know we got off to a rocky start, but we've since made amends and are, dare I say, friendly with one another. Please, I know the comment I am about to make is going to upset you at least a little, but don't at all think I've lost any measure of respect for you, nor do I want to revert back to the "old us," sniping eachothers comments and trash talking eachother at every turn.

That said: WHAT THE HOLY FUCKING SENCE DOES THAT MAKE?! The Matrix sold MILLIONS. MILLIONS! It isn't about a sequel, and it isn't about a future investment. It's about a liscensed game that sold fucking millions! Reviews be damned, and personal opinion aside, WB can fuck themselves if they think they're owed more money because it scored a 6 instead of a 7.

"Brand damage?!" Fuck them! That isn't even a real legal term! THEY were the ones with shitty project oversight, they were the ones who sold the damned liscense to begin with, and they were the one who ultimately gave it the green light to hit store shelves! It's Atari's fault all of a sudden?! Fuck that noise.

[Shin Johnpv]

I like you, john. Really, I do. I know we got off to a rocky start, but we've since made amends and are, dare I say, friendly with one another. Please, I know the comment I am about to make is going to upset you at least a little, but don't at all think I've lost any measure of respect for you, nor do I want to revert back to the "old us," sniping eachothers comments and trash talking eachother at every turn.

That said: WHAT THE HOLY FUCKING SENCE DOES THAT MAKE?! The Matrix sold MILLIONS. MILLIONS! It isn't about a sequel, and it isn't about a future investment. It's about a liscensed game that sold fucking millions! Reviews be damned, and personal opinion aside, WB can fuck themselves if they think they're owed more money because it scored a 6 instead of a 7.

"Brand damage?!" Fuck them! That isn't even a real legal term! THEY were the ones with shitty project oversight, they were the ones who sold the damned liscense to begin with, and they were the one who ultimately gave it the green light to hit store shelves! It's Atari's fault all of a sudden?! Fuck that noise.

my point is how well do you think enter the matrix 2 is going to do since they said they plan on doing a sequel, i bet no wheres near as well as the first one even if its fucking amazing and gets 10s from every single person who plays it

how ever if the first one wasnt such a bug ridden piece of crap, then yeah i think a sequel might do better

simply because it left such a sour taste in so many gamers mouths, like State of Emergency 2 thats being made, that thing is going to hit bargain bins faster than you can say sequel even if its the best game ever

yeah the first one made bijillions but because it was bad it could cost them millions when the second one comes out

I think blame should go on both of them but the developer having more DIRECT control over how the game comes out should be held more responsible IMHO

and yes like some one said the reverse should be true of Game based movies

maybe they way theyre going about it isnt the best but i think something should be done to hold developers accountable for when they put out rushed crap IMHO

even if it sells well it hurts the franchises image

[Captain Vegetable]

yeah the first one made bijillions but because it was bad it could cost them millions when the second one comes out

Actually, it didn't "cost" them anything. A potential dollar isn't a dollar at all. The millions I'm talking about are quantifable. They actually exist on Atari's ledger. The millions you're talking about are fictitious. They only exist in predictions and forecasts. Now, I'm certainly not discrediting a business prediction or forecast, but for the love of everything green on this planet, saying that poor development of a game that sold millions upon millions cut out on possible future profits is rediculous. Re-freaking-diculous.

And thanks for being such a good sport.

[Shin Johnpv]

i dont think its rediculous though

like i said yeah it sold millions but it was also ass, it being ass does effect future game sales

like i said i think something of some kind should be put into effect maybe this isnt the correct system, i personally dont know what is

but IMHO i dont see anything wrong with a company being paid less for making a shittier product

maybe the way were looking at it is wrong

i mean we keep refering to the matrix but what ever thats just one game

my point being that when a developer delivers less than what is expected they should be paid less for it

your not going to pay some one more for an inferior product just because alot of other people did it

least thats how i see it

[The_Meach]

If TNL still lacks a Secretary of Commerce, I hereby nominate Veggies.

[salmonax]

Consumers are the best quality control.

Word. The Market knows.

The market is made up of half-wits whose only redeeming feature is they can't be fooled twice. I'm all for the inherent democracy of the marketplace, but it's simply bad business to dump everything on the consumer. If I make cookies for a living, I'm going to be damn sure to throw out the burnt ones, the crooked ones, and the ones with clumps of cunt hair in them before they ever reach my customers' lips.

That said: WHAT THE HOLY FUCKING SENCE DOES THAT MAKE?! The Matrix sold MILLIONS. MILLIONS! It isn't about a sequel, and it isn't about a future investment. It's about a liscensed game that sold fucking millions! Reviews be damned, and personal opinion aside, WB can fuck themselves if they think they're owed more money because it scored a 6 instead of a 7.

I don't think anyone is seriously talking about retroactively penalizing Atari/Shiny. The WB has every right to negotiate whatever future terms they want with their properties, even if they're as bizarrely arbitrary as demanding royalties based on magazine reviews. Sales ain't everything. Hootie & The Blowfish sold millions, but today, they can't sell dick. The music industry is in a massive slump because of their tendency to rely on one-hit-wonders that move millions of units, but have no staying power.

"Brand damage?!" Fuck them! That isn't even a real legal term! THEY were the ones with shitty project oversight, they were the ones who sold the damned liscense to begin with, and they were the one who ultimately gave it the green light to hit store shelves! It's Atari's fault all of a sudden?! Fuck that noise.

Plenty of blame to go around, but ultimately, it's the WB's ball, and they can take it home if they want to. Would you prefer they did nothing to improve the quality of games? Are you happy with games like Enter the Matrix?