Another American Beheading...

[Diff-chan]

StriderKyo you are thinking that I am thinking simplistically. Im not linking him to communism outright. I studied a lot of Marxist writings in my sociology of music class and I am aware of the effects of his thoughts. But that doesn't mean he was right or that better ideas havent supplanted his - its kind of like Freud. Amazing, brilliant thinker, but a lot of his ideas have become outdated.

Marx was speaking about the state's use of a higher power to justify their appointment to the post - monarchs routinely claimed to have been appointed by God because hey, how else could they get there? (Remind you of anyone, btw?)

Yes, it does remind me of somebody - all the Monarchs that used to do it that no longer have any power! In any case, in Western countries today leaders are elected so they no longer do this, which proves my point that this quote about religion being the opiate of the masses is taken out of context by atheists today.

[StriderKyo]

StriderKyo you are thinking that I am thinking simplistically. Im not linking him to communism outright. I studied a lot of Marxist writings in my sociology of music class and I am aware of the effects of his thoughts. But that doesn't mean he was right or that better ideas havent supplanted his - its kind of like Freud. Amazing, brilliant thinker, but a lot of his ideas have become outdated.

I'd put Freud (well) ahead of him, but I think that's an excellent comparison.

Yes, it does remind me of somebody - all the Monarchs that used to do it that no longer have any power! In any case, in Western countries today leaders are elected so they no longer do this, which proves my point that this quote about religion being the opiate of the masses is taken out of context by atheists today.

Even those monarchs possessed the mandate of the people. There's little question in my mind Dubya feels he has been annointed by God - read the memoirs of almost anyone who has been involved in his administration, even those who take a favourable view of him like David Frum. It's as much a product of his worldview as any messianic impulse.

[Jakkal]

Those idiotic questions have been asked and answered millions of times. But I will humor you and say its all because of our Reptilian overlords who live underneath the Denver Airport and feed on babies for fuel.

Asked and answered millions of times? By who?? I've never heard any answers from the authorities. How can part of Flight 93 have landed 8 miles away from the crash site if it simply was flown into the ground? If you're calling them idiotic, then I think you might just be afraid to look at what's really happening in the world. Anyone who has looked at the evidence, especially all the insider stock trading right before the attacks, knows that the offical story is a joke. They've never even offered any evidence that bin Laden is responsible, they just said he did it, and people have blindly believed them.

I suppose you'll be one of the people blaming the next domestic attacks on al-Qaeda/whoever the Elite want to start aggressions with. The Nazis did this sort of thing all the time, guys. Organize and carry out an attack yourself, then blame it on whoever you want the public to hate.

[StriderKyo]

They've never even offered any evidence that bin Laden is responsible, they just said he did it, and people have blindly believed them.

If not bin Laden himself, there's certainly a mountain of evidence that Al Qaeda planned and carried out the attacks, not the least of which is bin Laden's claim of responsibility.

[Jakkal]

If not bin Laden himself, there's certainly a mountain of evidence that Al Qaeda planned and carried out the attacks, not the least of which is bin Laden's claim of responsibility.

In my opinion, there really is no evidence that al-Qaeda (which was created by the CIA, by the way) carried out the attacks on the day itself. They may have told some of the patsies (like Atta) what they expected them to do, but the planes that hit the WTC didn't have people in them. Did you know that most of the alleged hijackers are still alive?

Here are just some (and I stress that) anomalies:

-An extremely high volume of put options - a bet on the price of shares falling - were purchased for the stock of Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, the international financiers which occupied 22 storeys of the World Trade Centre. Even more telling were the volume of put options on American and United Airlines, which owned the four aircraft "hijacked" by the "terrorists." On these two airlines, and only these two, the level of share trade went up by 1,200 per cent in the three days prior to the catastrophe. As the shares dropped in response to the terrorism, the value of these options multiplied a
hundred fold.

-Bush says that he was sitting outside the Sarasota classroom waiting for the start of the Pet Goat reading when he saw the first plane crash into the Twin Towers on a television monitor. "I saw the airplane hit the tower -
the TV was obviously on and I used to fly myself," he was to explain later. The President recalls that he turned to his security men, joking: "There’s one
terrible pilot."
Yet the footage of the first plane crashing into the Twin Tower did not emerge for another 13 hours (what millions of us saw was live footage of the second plane). Shots of the first plane, taken accidentally by a French documentary maker filming in Manhattan, were only released publicly for television the following day.

Ha, yeah, pretty idiotic points right enough. How could I have been so stupid?

[sethsez]

OH MY GOD THE GOVERNMENT IS AFTER ME

[StriderKyo]

In my opinion, there really is no evidence that al-Qaeda (which was created by the CIA, by the way) carried out the attacks on the day itself.

The CIA helped set it up, but they did not create it by any stretch. Nor can they really be held accountable for what it became - they were only interested in setting up an anti-soviet resistance.

Weird fact - I used to have an ancient GI Joe comic about the Joes parachuting into an Afghanistan knock-off and meeting up with a CIA contact who was delivering arms to arab freedom fighters. Wish I kept it now.

er, anyway, there's all kinds of evidence, from flight recorders to the celphone calls made to taped phonecalls of Al Qaeda setting it up to testimony from Al Qaeda moles and the traced movements of the hijackers.

They may have told some of the patsies (like Atta) what they expected them to do, but the planes that hit the WTC didn't have people in them.

Given the nature of the blaze which ensued, how could anybody prove there was nobody on them one way or the other?

Did you know that most of the alleged hijackers are still alive?

Er, this allegation is based on what?

Here are just some (and I stress that) anomalies:

None of which prove anything other than that Bush makes stuff up, which was already well established. It's a massive leap saying that because some brokers thought Witter shares would drop that the CIA planned 9/11. You have to offer some kind of actual evidence. I'll bet you could find just as many companies that suffered from the event whose stock price rose the day before.

I don't like the Bushites either, but don't you think it's a little hypocritical that you're willing to let Al Qaeda off the hook based on percieved inconsistencies, but hang the US government on the same tack? It's not as though Al Qaeda's done anything to deserve benefit of doubt.

I think the worst thingyou can say is that the Republicans opportunistically used september 11th to push other agendas, but come on. They're politicians. It's what they do for a living. It makes them jerks, not monsters.

[Calliander]

So how did the universe begin? Did it just begin, even the big bang theory relies on a pre existing giant world blowing up. Scientifically, NOTHING can simply exist, that is the basis of science. Therefore the begining of the universe is non-scientific. Non-scientific means that there was some supernatural element in the creation of the universe.

We haven't discovered how it "began." The possibility exists that we might in the future, though.

The lack of evidence explaining how the universe began does not prove the existence of God.

[Curtis]

Well that first quote from Mr. Rose is worthless anyway, because civil can be defined as "Of or relating to citizens and their interrelations with one another or with the state", and a civil war definitely relates to citizens and their interrelations with one another or with the state. It's one of those quotes from musicians which is supposed to be really deep and meaningful but is actually totally worthless. Kind of like that Bob Marley one, "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery,only ourselves can free our minds".

So, does the latter negate the former wrt that Axl Rose one? The former meant nothing as it is.

You beat me to it, but thank fuck someone said it.

[Jakkal]

The fastest answer to all your questions, mate, is to simply read the evidence in the link I posted before, and make up your own mind.

Once again, it is http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.htm

The reason I say there was no one on the planes is that I feel the video and photographic evidence proves that they were not the same planes that left the airports, but they were switched. In the case of the first impact, it was a military craft which can be seen firing 2 projectiles at the tower right before impact, and in the case of the second impact, a jumbo jet identical to the one that left the airport, but equipped with a projectile of some kind near its underbelly.

Why was only the second one a jumbo jet? They knew that after the first impact, all eyes in the world would be trained on the Twin Towers, and thus only a jumbo jet would suffice to fool everyone. They did not expect there to be amateur video of the first impact, and figured everyone would believe it was a pasenger plane in their state of complete shock. I probably would if I was in NYC that day. But there was amateur video, and it is a big smoking gun. Why did they bother to use a military craft in the first collision, you ask? My guess is a military craft is easier to control than a remote-controlled jumbo jet is. This is evident from the bad approach angle of the second plane, where most of jet fuel burned outside the building.

And everything else just stinks. Atta's passport being so conveniently found on the streets, the Pentagon impact clearly not being caused by a jumbo jet, the long delay in fighter jet response, the military conducting war games on the same day (in order to cause confusion), everything.