What are you?

[Gohron]

I make no religious implications, nor must you assume that I believe rape victims are responsible for their actions. However, I believe that the child is not at fault for what occurred to the mother, and for that I do feel there is a responsibility to at least afford it the luxury of life, rather than let it die as a target of spite or guilt.

That's the way I look at it, so no, I'm not a fucking monster. I don't think tragic things should be forgotten and pushed away into the past, I think they should be overcome.


In response to Astroblue about my comments on abortion. If it is possible the mother will die then, no, I still would not support abortion, if they were both going to die, well that's a hard one, I suppose I might support abortion in that case.

In response to some of the comments about guns and there's no reason for anyone to have them. Well there's also no reason you have to own a Playstation, I like firearms because I like to shoot them, mostly high velocity assault rifles and big caliber single shot rifles, a very very large percentage of gun crimes are committed with illegally owned weapons, very few crimes are committed with legally owned firearms.

The major reasoning behind the constitutional amendment in the US for firearms ownership was so the populace would be able to prevent an oppressive and corrupt government from rising to power. I explained this in another thread and think it still applies completely in todays society. The guerilla war in Iraq causes a lot of damage to our military even though we are winning on a tactical scale, now, just think 30 times that amount of guerillas (even up to 100 to 500 times the amount) who are much better armed, much better trained and much better educated and think of the damage they could do to the US military. It would likely be destructive if the government had large military support but I don't think the US military would stand a chance as their armor and airforce would lose much of it's effectiveness. Troop morale would also be horrible even if they didn't mind killing fellow American citizens as they would constantly be suffering small but vicious attacks that they are unable to respond to.

[Nic0]

You would force a woman to have a child if she was raped. Forcing her to carry around a constant reminder that she was violated, and made into an object.

Dude, you're a fucking monster. Seriously.

so if something terrible happens to the mother she should bring on something terrible to her child? Don't return evil with more evil. Also she can put the child up for adoption if it's really that hard. There are many cases where rape victims don't abort their children, they view it as a blessing coming through something evil. That whole "the baby is a reminder of the rape" argument is total crap, killing a child (who is completely innocent) for something that someone else did is just ridiculous. It would almost be like me presenting a lawsuit on my neighbor because lightning split a tree and caused it to fall on my house.

Personally from my view, people who are for abortion are monsters....its a human life, not a choice. Face the consequences for you're own actions and take the responsibility of the human life you created (whether it be intentional or not)

[Mman]

It isnt a child though...it is not equivolent to a human being until it is born. It is some fraction thereof, but it does not equate to murder. Personally, I think until the baby is born it is just another organ in the woman and she should have the right to remove it if it is displeasurable to her, no matter if the sex was willing or not.

[Calliander]

Well, really, she's more important than something that's inside of her, especially if that thing inside of her was not wanted or planned originally.

Call me a monster, but then I also don't view it as a human being until it has rational thought, so...

[g0zen]

Call me a monster, but then I also don't view it as a human being until it has rational thought, so...

That's pushing it a little seeing as scientists say a human doesn't reach that level of mental maturity until around age 7.

EDIT: Also, there's something I think we need to dispell. Being pro-choice does not necessarily make one pro-abortion, no matter what dumbasses like the Right to Life Movement say. By being pro-choice you are supporting the woman's right to decide what she does with her body, whether it be to carry a child to term or to abort it. The choice is a personal one, not a legal or religious one to be made FOR the woman.

[Calliander]

It isnt a child though...it is not equivolent to a human being until it is born. It is some fraction thereof, but it does not equate to murder. Personally, I think until the baby is born it is just another organ in the woman and she should have the right to remove it if it is displeasurable to her, no matter if the sex was willing or not.

Well, you have to remember that after a certain point the thing has a heart that beats.

Of course, I have no problem with eating meat so I have no problem with abortion.

That's pushing it a little seeing as scientists say a human doesn't reach that level of mental maturity until around age 7.

You don't want to get into how much I hate kids.

But anyway, by rational thought, I'm referring to the ability to override instinct. Last psychological journal I checked said that was four months or so.

[Mman]

Well, you have to remember that after a certain point the thing has a heart that beats.

My arties can also beat...but if one of those fuckers gets all jammed up its getting out of me.

[g0zen]

But anyway, by rational thought, I'm referring to the ability to override instinct. Last psychological journal I checked said that was four months or so.

By rational I assumed you meant being able to discern right from wrong, etc.

[AstroBlue]

Call me a monster, but then I also don't view it as a human being until it has rational thought, so...

Awesome, we can kill most of the human race!


But seriously, I think the hypothetical situtation where the mother will die in birth is far less clear cut. You're saying that the mother would be killing the baby; but the other way, indirectly, wouldn't the baby also be killing the mother?

That shit is the acid test.


And, this has been said before, if abortion is murder, than is preventable miscarriage (written on the death certificate and known in medical fields as spontaneous abortion) manslaughter?

[Calliander]

My arties can also beat...but if one of those fuckers gets all jammed up its getting out of me.

I know. I was playing the devil's advocate in that example.

By rational I assumed you meant being able to discern right from wrong, etc.

I can't pick a correct single word for what I mean. I used to say "logical," but that didn't pan out. Then I tried "sentient," and someone called literal on that, so now I'm using "rational." I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.