The ongoing battle of Fallujah

[Gohron]

A lot of things have been happening revolving the USMC and US Army assault on the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah. Post news and thoughts related to events happening in this thread.

One thing I wanted to bring up was the Marine currently being accussed of war-crimes, this is basically the story here if you're not familar with it (taken from an AIM conversation between me and IronPlant):

ComradePatrick2: There was a building the Marines cleared out one day and they left 5 or so dead or wounded in the building (insurgents that is)
ComradePatrick2: They came back the next day and an NBC reporter was with them, except now there was 7 dead people in the building
ComradePatrick2: One of the Marines yelled something along the lines of "The son of a bitch is trying to pretend he's dead!" and you hear a shot, but the footage is blocked out, in the unblocked footage it shows him shooting a guy somewhere on the upper part of his body, probably his head and now he's facing war-crimes for it.

My opinion on the whole thing is that it is absolute bullshit, nothing more.

For an enemy who is known to play dirty tactics and blow himself up as well as booby trap bodies the Marine had perfect reason to believe that him and/or his fellow Marines was in danger. If he hadn't shot the guy (who may or may not have been wounded) he either would got up and fought later or just laid there until he died.

Last I heard the USMC was backing the Marines position but a lot of people are pushing for war-crimes conviction on the matter. Something was said on the news that a reporter or media outlet did not release his name to the American public but did release his name to the Arab world. It is uncomfirmed but it is said that the Marine who shot the insurgent had also been shot in the face the day before, possibly making him jumpy.

As a man that served 9 months in the USMC inactive reserves and 1 month active duty and is making plans on signing another 8 year contract with the Marines this story will make me very sad if the Marine is indeed charged with war-crimes, leaving him to be dishonorably discharged (which basically leaves you stripped of your rights as US Citizen) and will spend a good deal of time in a federal military jail. That's one of my brothers who could be charged and convicted of war crimes for acting with very reasonable actions related to the enemy he was fighting and the tactics they employ. It will just show how much the media can slant a situation no matter the consquences of the people involved. I'll say right now that I would've more then likely shot the person too, as it seems he was indeed pretending he was dead and it's not worth the risk of a whole group of Marines getting killed to leave him there or try to capture him.

[MVS]

I have no problem with this.

I want mean bastards as Marines.

[Yoshi]

This stuff burns me up too. It reminds me of what I have read of Vietnam in a way. Women and children would run up to our soldiers, then either blow themselves up or pull out a concealed gun. I would have started killing them all too. This Marine did nothing wrong. If anything, he deserves praise for completing the job.

[Diff-chan]

Women and children would run up to our soldiers, then either blow themselves up or pull out a concealed gun.

That shit was in Apocalypse Now. That said, do you (everyone, not just Yoshi) think that these terorrists, who are using fucking mosques for bunkers and weapon storages, would think twice about doing this shit?

Brown people being blown up?

[AstroBlue]

I'm not a soldier, so I can't pass judgment. But the thing kind of reminded me of that South Park episode where the hunters yelled "It's coming right for us" at a bunny that was minding it's own business and then shot it dead with AKs.

I think the problem is more that there was a camera crew with them.

[Stone]

Yeah, I agree - this is in no way a war crime. Listening to NPR, you would think this is Abu Ghraib pt. 2, and it's nothing of the sort. Bullshit.

Also - and this is interesting - this marine, who may be accused of war crimes, had a friend who died about a week earlier. The friend died because of a booby-trapped corpse, a guy who let off a grenade as he was dying with the intention of taking some Great-Satan-loving-marines with him.

[MVS]

Doesn't the Genva Convention only apply to enemy combatants in uniform and not 'insurgants'?

[Stone]

Doesn't the Genva Convention only apply to enemy combatants in uniform and not 'insurgants'?

The distinction is very blurry, but that is true in some cases, I think. Military law is pretty complicated.

[Gohron]

Doesn't the Genva Convention only apply to enemy combatants in uniform and not 'insurgants'?

The Geneva convention is mostly moot as it is never followed completely by any side in a war, never. According to the Geneva convetion we're supposed to give cigarettes and pay caputured enemy combatants for any labor we make them do. If I ever get captured I hope the enemy at least gives me some smokes though.

The distinction is very blurry, but that is true in some cases, I think. Military law is pretty complicated.

He would probably be tried under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) but it is very good that the USMC is backing his position as that will seriously strengthen his resolve.

[g0zen]

If the insurgent did pose a legitimate threat then I have no problem with the Marine using necessary force. This is an internal matter for the military to handle. However, I do not agree with all the right-wingers who say this footage should not have been made public. This is the true face of war, right or wrong, and the American people deserve to see it.

Also, the whole 'his best friend died the previous day because of booby-trapped body, he was tried, he had been wounded, etc.' shouldn't be played up so much. If you look at things from an objective legal standpoint they amount to a motive rather than an alibi.