Great American Smokeout

[YellerDog]

I know a lot of bartenders who first-hand smoke.

[AstroBlue]

I know a lot of bartenders who first-hand smoke.

That's true, but in all the studies I've read it was a controlled variable. For instance, in a study in my state, it found (using the most conservative model) that 59 non-smoking bar workers die a year of lung cancer.

[SpoDaddy]

I'm sorry, but...

FUCK YOU!

There's a large amount of evidence which proves that lung cancer prevalence is significantly higher in bartenders, and that second hand smoke is dangerous. That little anecdote just proves how much of a worthless cunt you are, hopefully that unemployed philosopher will get the last laugh. It would be Darwinism at its best.

No, Darwinism at it's best is that I get to have kids and he doesn't (gays don't have the "civil right" to magically make babies with each other yet). Speaking of flaming commie queers, where is your "evidence" that bartenders get lung cancer more than everyone else? Also, lots of bartenders smoke dumbass.

For instance, in a study in my state, it found (using the most conservative model) that 59 non-smoking bar workers die a year of lung cancer.

You do realize that lung cancer isn't a magical disease caused exclusively by tobacco smoke, right? I bet a few non-bartenders a year die of it too. "Astro-Blue, AusTRALLL-ian-for-communist!"

[AstroBlue]

No, Darwinism at it's best is that I get to have kids and he doesn't (gays don't have the "civil right" to magically make babies with each other yet).

They however have pagan science and turkey basters to do it without magic.

Speaking of flaming commie queers, where is your "evidence" that bartenders get lung cancer more than everyone else?

Repace JL (2004) Estimated mortality from secondhand smoke among club, pub, tavern and bar workers in New South Wales, Australia. The Cancer Council New South Wales

Junker MH, Danuser B, Monn C, Koller T (2001) Acute sensory response of nonsmokers at very low environmental tobacco smoke concentrations in controlled laboratory settings. Environmental Health Perspectives 109: 1045-1052

Cains T, Cannata S, Poulos R, Ferson MJ, Stewart BW (2004) Designated ‘‘no smoking'' areas provide from partial to no protection from environmental tobacco smoke. Tobacco Control 13:17–22

Neuberger JS and Field RW (2003) Occupation and lung cancer in nonsmokersl Reviews on Environmental Health. 18(4):251-67

Nurminen MM and Jaakkola MS (2004) On the estimation of lung cancer mortality caused by occupational exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in Finland. Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine. 46(2):93-5

Sasco AJ (2003) Epidemiology of lung carcinoma, Revue du Praticien. 53(7):721-6

Sasco AJ, Merrill RM, Dari I. Benhaim-Luzon V, Carriot F, Cann CI, Bartal M (2002) A case-control study of lung cancer in Casablanca, Morocco, Cancer Causes & Control. 13(7):609-16, 2002 Sep.

Hu J, Mao Y, Dryer D and White K (2002) Canadian Cancer Registries Epidemiology Research Group. Risk factors for lung cancer among Canadian women who have never smoked., Cancer Detection & Prevention. 26(2):129-38

Carrion Valero F, Hernandez Hernandez JR (2002) Passive smoking in adults, Archivos de Bronconeumologia. 38(3):137-46

Johnson KC, Hu J, Mao Y (2002) Canadian Cancer Registries Epidemiology Research Group. Lifetime residential and workplace exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and lung cancer in never-smoking women, Canada 1994-97., International Journal of Cancer. 93(6):902-6

Nurminen MM. Jaakkola MS. Mortality from occupational exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in Finland, Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine. 43(8):687-93, 2001 Aug.

Williams MD and Sandler AB (2001) The epidemiology of lung cancer, Cancer Treatment & Research. 105:31-52

That's what I could find on the first page of a Medline search, do you need more?

Also, lots of bartenders smoke dumbass.

Ever used SPSS?

You do realize that lung cancer isn't a magical disease caused exclusively by tobacco smoke, right?

Indeed. Coal Tar, Nickel, Chromium, Arsenic, Radon, and radiation can also cause it. But are you aware of the incidence of Lung Cancer before the popularisation of cigarette smoking, pre-Great War?

All of these studies are put through Statistical Packages for covariates and controls.

I bet a few non-bartenders a year die of it too. "Astro-Blue, AusTRALLL-ian-for-communist!"

Yes, I am such a big communist; I wear red all day long and burn churches. Now, here's some juice and a cookie, run along.

[Grave]

Do you know the prevalence of lung cancer in bartenders? It's not absurd, unless you like inflicting probably the most horrible undignified death on someone else.

That's why I support establishments deciding for themselves whether or not smoking would be allowed within their doors. I don't like the city deciding it for them. If a bartender feared lung cancer from secondhand smoke, however large or small the chance, then they shouldn't work somewhere where people smoke. That's their call. Find a place where they don't if that worries them.

I guess it's not an issue here and in many other cities anymore either, though.

[Dolemite]

Smoking's banned in all bars in Boston, and I think it's kind of absurd.

NYC too, except for a few specific places. It's actually cut down business, but it's nice being about to go out and not reek of cigarettes by the end of the night.

Granted, I quit a little over a month ago, but the fact remains that I think smoking is a pleasurable activity and there's no reason people shouldn't be able to do it if they want without being treated like lepers and having everyone in the world tell them how horrible it is for them.

I haven't smoked in years, so I don't really care. It's actually nice not having to breathe other people's shit. People want to smoke, awesome. Smoke 20 packs a day, I don't care. You're entitled to your rights as a smoker just as I'm entitled to my rights as a non-smoker. I don't see the problem with having to step outside for a smoke, or perhaps having a smokers-only bar or a seperate non-smoking section. I shouldn't have to breathe second-hand smoke but banning smoking from all bars altogether is a bit too much. I certainly remember how good a cigarette went with a Jack and Coke.

[SpoDaddy]

Yes, sometimes it is a huge pain in the ass to have to go outside to smoke, like when it's 2 degrees or raining outside. If the establishment was non-smoking by choice it'd be completely different, but having it forced by the government is an outrage. The government doesn't mind taxing the hell out of cigarettes or keeping them legal, yet they restrict the rights of people who use the product? That's bullshit. It hurts business and it's not right.

Nobody has yet proven that second hand smoke is anything more than annoying.

[Will]

Nobody has yet proven that second hand smoke is anything more than annoying.

How about I use your lungs as an ashtray?

[AstroBlue]

Nobody has yet proven that second hand smoke is anything more than annoying.

Hahaha... only if you ignore about 40 scientific studies.

[Saint of Killers]

Do you know the prevalence of lung cancer in bartenders? It's not absurd, unless you like inflicting probably the most horrible undignified death on someone else.

I guess I would care if I lived in a Communist country. But here in America we can choose what we do for a living. If bartenders are worried about it they can get another job. And from everything I've heard from places where smoking in bars is illegal, bar workers tend to be quite pissed about it because sales (and therefore tips) are down.

For instance, in a study in my state, it found (using the most conservative model) that 59 non-smoking bar workers die a year of lung cancer.

If this is from the JL Repace study you listed, he included ex-smokers with non-smokers, which is total bullshit. I stopped reading the study there.

But are you aware of the incidence of Lung Cancer before the popularisation of cigarette smoking, pre-Great War?

What's the average age that lung cancer is diagnosed at? And what was the average life expectancy prior to 1914?