Ninja Gaiden: Xbox Exclusive

[rezo]

who? 3D allows for genuine dodging, instead of a maneuver that "turns off" collision on your character, or forces you into another plane all together. there's also the basic "kick to the head", where the collision in a 2D game would be an automatic hit, whereas in 3D, the foot may go past the head and over the shoulder and miss.

I didn't say 2D collision isn't good, but 3D allows for more precision, which should be better for a fighting game, when handled properly.

x_X

like theres almost a lag to it
so far the 3d fighting games ive played just havent felt as responsive to me as a good capcom or SNK fighter and thats a big thing to me

thats what I meant by the animation system. Something about how they're initiated or something, though I don't know enough to know what is responsible for it.

[Shin Johnpv]

well my biggest fear with Ninja Gaiden is the rumor of it that it will play like tenchu

which i really fear because the same source awhile ago i heard that from also said it was going to be Xbox exclusive

and so far 1/2 of it has come true

NG to me anyway wasnt about sneaking around

it was about killing really nasty birds and running around in the open :P

[Tracer]

I heard that it would be an Action RPG - the Xbox exclusive guess was probably an approximation on Team Ninja's most likely direction which wouldn't be too hard to make. Same goes for the Tenchu reference - an inference easy to make without confirmation. It may or maynot be true, but guessing that it'd be like Tenchu is not far gone. Sounds less like a source and more like an educated guess.

But in all fairness now - the thought of a Ninja running around in broad day light killing everything while in plain view sounds like Monty Python could have a field day with it. I know that's pretty much how it was, but damn doesn't the concept sound strange to you?

But then, any fan would want it to be as faithfull to the original as possible. This I can wholely understand... but the birds HAVE to go damnit Or at least be less potent in thier ability to RAVAGE a ninja. Bullets? Bah! Birds?! Get me the fuck outta here!!

ºTracer

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by rezo
who? 3D allows for genuine dodging, instead of a maneuver that "turns off" collision on your character, or forces you into another plane all together. there's also the basic "kick to the head", where the collision in a 2D game would be an automatic hit, whereas in 3D, the foot may go past the head and over the shoulder and miss.

Shame that what you're speaking of is a perfect world. The best 3D fighting game collision is VF4, but even that isn't perfect. There are many instances where moves hit where they shouldn't or other moves pass by characters for no reason simply because of how the hit boxes shift. I've watched grabs in 3D fighters completely whiff by characters, but it connects and goes into the throw animation because of hit boxes sticking out where they shouldn't. 2D fighting games, especially SFIII:TS, features hit detection far more precise then any 3D fighter, EVER. What you're refering to is not precision, but a style of dodging. 3D hit detection is still a long ways away from being precise.

Also, I've never witnessed a kick whiff by someone's head over their shoulder in a 3D fighter. They all use tracking so attacks are continuously homing in.

thats what I meant by the animation system. Something about how they're initiated or something, though I don't know enough to know what is responsible for it.

Rememeber what I said before about lengthy animation cycles in 3D games? Here's where it comes into play. A 2D fighter generally initiates moves instantly, using only a few frames of animation before the hit reaches its "connect" range of animation. You press a button, and the reaction is instantaneous (excluding, obviously, slower moves done so because of their power). With 3D fighters, since they use much more frames of animation, it takes that much longer to actually get a punch to punch because they want to show off their animation cycle. Very few 3D fighters move at a fast speed (DOA2+3 and most of VF4 both do) and as such offer a much less reactionary fighting style, something that seems seeped in molasses after 2D fighters.

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by TracerBullet
But in all fairness now - the thought of a Ninja running around in broad day light killing everything while in plain view sounds like Monty Python could have a field day with it. I know that's pretty much how it was, but damn doesn't the concept sound strange to you?

You're right. We should wait for nighttime to slay the legions of Hell that are pouring forth, changing the elements themselves as they progress.

But if one wasn't running around slaying the masses, what would be the point of another Ninja Gaiden? Why don't they just help work the next Tenchu if they want a damn "Ninja Simulator"? Shinobi should also be action-packed, it's simply how these games were, and why we love them: To play as Ninjas killing everything in sight.

[rezo]

Shame that what you're speaking of is a perfect world. The best 3D fighting game collision is VF4, but even that isn't perfect.

I am talking about a perfect world. I prefer to argue for ideals instead of finding real life examples. What is done is not what could be done, and all that. x_X

Someone out there must be thinking the same thing I'm thinking. When its time to do so, they ought to do it in 3D.

I was talking about precision though. It's the difference between using collision boxes, or using collision boxes + pixel by pixel sprite comparison. More precise collision would allow for the dodging system.

+

explanation of animations makes sense.

+

To play as Ninjas killing everything in sight.

waits in fear.

[Punky Skunk]

Originally posted by TracerBullet
excpet Road Rash didn't take to 3D well... odd).

Road Rash 64 was a damn good attempt.

Zelda and others among the games also listed before (although - I found DMC simplistic and too scripted to be considered a sucessfull 3D game, IMO) are great 3D games. There's so many more and some genres just aren't genres anymore with out 3D.

Zelda, as an adventure game, is meant for 3D. Two-D action games, platformers and shooters offer something 3D games can't replace, however.

3D can be awesome, and there have been NUMEROUS bad 2D games. I never like to agree with MKUltra but he's on to something that I've noticed for a long time and our long gone friend DiffusionX used to say (over and over again) that there's GREAT things to be had in 3D and there were terrible things that were had in 2D. Niether is better than the other IMO.

What... does that have to do with anything?

The fact remains that some gameplay experiences can't be replaced or bettered by 3D. There are good 3D action games, definitely, but 2D action games are a style of their own. Switching for the sake of being cutting edge is retarded (but expected), and it changes the series to something it isn't. Just understand that "2D vs. 3D" isn't as simple as declaring one's super-hardcoreness, it actually has gameplay implications.

[AaronChance]

Originally posted by MechDeus
I think you mean "racing game".

You think JSRF is a racing game? Huh? O_o

There are a few racing elements, but JSRF at its heart is really a unique breed of 3D platformer. Sort of like sonic, but instead of loops and other curves to run and spin through, you have things to grind off, and instead of robots to stomp, you have graffiti to spray (and the occasional robot to stomp).

As for the whole 2D vs 3D debate, I feel that there are some game genres that transform into something else (which isn't a bad thing, just a different thing) when brought into 3D. This is probably unavoidable anyway. Saying one is 'better' than the other, comparing the two different styles of genres, is accusing an apple of being inferior to an orange. Just because some of these attempts of transformation have sucked, doesn't mean the idea sucks, just the developers (Sonic Team, I'm looking in your direction).

I like freedom in games. In general, 2D limits that freedom. 3D lets me play the games the way I want (at least those without hundreds of FMVs and fixed camera angles) and I wouldn't trade that for anything.

Damn, I want to play Morrowind some more now. Got to resist.

[EThugg]

If I'm giving Shinobi and Metroid a chance, which I am, I can give this a chance. Good news for XB though... lol @ everyone who thought that dumb poll on Tecmos website could move the game to GC... (nothing against GC, but that's the wrong game for the system).

[Chojin]

Originally posted by EThugg
lol @ everyone who thought that dumb poll on Tecmos website could move the game to GC... (nothing against GC, but that's the wrong game for the system).

I dunno, alot peoples fondest memories of Ninja Gaiden come from playing it on the NES. The GC actually does sound like the right system for the game. Not that I won't purchase it if it's good.





Edit: Typo world