Star Wars: Attack of the Nitpicks (spoilers - duh)

[Green]

I see dvd as the ultimate storage for a movie. A tape wears away eventually, but a dvd won't. The original cut of the Star Wars trilogy has been beloved for three decades now, and I think it is unfair that Lucas would only release what he feels is the correct version. Take for instance, Greedo shooting first. No one thinks that was an improvement, and how this was presented changes Han Solo's character. You mention that directors cuts are popular, and I like directors cuts. Thing is, you can buy the original AND expanded versions of Almost Famous, Apocolypse Now, and others. I think it would be a crime for Lucas to rob us of the films millions of people fell in love with, not what he feels is a proper enhancment.

[sleeve]

Yes, but in the movies you cite there are legitimate reasons for having multiple cuts on DVD.

When you're talking about a movie that's all story and special effects like Star Wars, most of the other stuff is irrelevant. I don't watch Star Wars for the brilliant character development or great hairstyles, I watch it for the great story and special effects. If Lucas wants to make a better space battle sequence, so be it.

And like I said, you can always watch the VHS tapes if you're not happy.

[ssbomberman]

Originally posted by sleeveboy
Yes, but in the movies you cite there are legitimate reasons for having multiple cuts on DVD.

When you're talking about a movie that's all story and special effects like Star Wars, most of the other stuff is irrelevant. I don't watch Star Wars for the brilliant character development or great hairstyles, I watch it for the great story and special effects. If Lucas wants to make a better space battle sequence, so be it.

And like I said, you can always watch the VHS tapes if you're not happy.

That's a valid argument, but I just think people that didn't get to see the original versions are missing out. It all comes down to what you prefer. Sure they're his movies, but it just doesn't work to throw in bits of computer stuff when the rest of the movie is late 70s puppet work...and my biggest complaint is that I don't think Lucas knows what the hell he wants--I mean he added that ridiculous dance scene to the Return of the Jedi and altered its ending as well...he's making the movies suck...and I can't imagine what a travesty it would be to see Jar Jar in the originals...

I grew up with these films and saw ROTJ in the theatre when I was 5 years old--to me they are masterpieces, just like the Indiana Jones Trilogy, E.T., and others, and they shouldn't be messed with...or atleast give those of us who prefer the original a chance to buy that version...

Like it was mentioned before, it would be like a great novelist (say Dickens if he was still alive) going back and changing Great Expectations--to some this may not matter--but to others, it would be wrong on so many levels...

If he wants to improve them, then do complete remakes or he could just focus on making the new ones better because they sure aren't near what the old ones are...

[Cheebs]

Originally posted by sleeveboy
Bitch, bitch, bitch.

The original trilogy wasn't exactly indie arthouse material. It was the most technologically advanced filmmaking at the time. If Lucas were to release the original trilogy unaltered on DVD, what exactly would he be preserving? Mark Hamill's hokey line readings? Carrie Fisher's wooden acting? 1970's quality special effects?

Star Wars has always been about using high technology to tell a good story. Why the hell shouldn't Lucas use all the digital enhancement he wants to make the original trilogy better on DVD?

It's not like anything of value will be lost in the translation.

Are you....Ok? Sounds like you hit your head pretty hard there.

[sleeve]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Are you....Ok? Sounds like you hit your head pretty hard there.

I'm fine, thanks.

Maybe you'd care to explain what is so inviolably holy about the original trilogy, then?

They're just movies for chrissakes. If Lucas can spiff 'em up with some nice CG, more power to him, since special effects are what people watch Star Wars for in the first place.

[Green]

Originally posted by sleeveboy


I'm fine, thanks.

Maybe you'd care to explain what is so inviolably holy about the original trilogy, then?

They're just movies for chrissakes. If Lucas can spiff 'em up with some nice CG, more power to him, since special effects are what people watch Star Wars for in the first place.

I watchem for Chewie.

[Space Pirate Roberts]

Sleeveboy, you need to stop making broad, sweeping generalizations with little basis in fact. You use the word "people" when the word you're looking for is "I". You don't strike me as being a Star Wars fan. Oh sure, you may have watched and enjoyed the films, but from the statements you've made I wouldn't call you a SW "fan" any more than I would call the proud owner of a PS2, the latest edition of Madden, and NOTHING ELSE game-related a "gamer". Sure, you both derive some enjoyment from the subject at hand, but you're neither a devotee. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how you're coming off.

Now, let me tell you how I, and every other SW fan I know, feel. We DO NOT watch these films for special effects alone, thank you. In fact, for me personally, the fx are a very small part of the equation, at least regarding the original trilogy. These films are more than effects, more than a story, they are a mythology, an integral part of my childhood. A mythology in which Han Solo has the brains and balls to SHOOT THAT GREEN BASTARD FIRST, DAMMIT!!
Suppose you'd grown up dearly loving the Brothers Grimm fairytales, then Walt Disney comes along and sucks the soul right out of them. Tons of ridiculous talking animal sidekicks, and to top it off nobody dies but the villain! Wouldn't you feel violated?

You say you don't care for Mark Hammill's acting? Fine, go watch A Beautiful Mind or something. But to me, Luke Skywalker is a real person and a dear friend. One whose emotional turmoil I understand quite well, and feel for. And sure Carrie Fisher's not so great in Jedi, when she was on crack... but by then, she'd already established the character well enough, and the others played off her so convincingly, that I never really noticed until recently. And every other performance is pitch perfect, end of story.

The setting... dear God, this world sucked me in as a kid. My number one ambition was to be a Jedi knight. And as others have pointed out, CG surrounded by real sets and models looks incredibly fake. The only way George could make it work would be to redo the WHOLE THING in CG, and I don't think any of us want to see that.

The bottom line is, if you're right about people ONLY watching for the fx, then why is there any interest in seeing them released at all? As you said, nobody cares about 70s fx anymore, so by your reasoning the DVDs won't sell at all, nor did the 4 VHS rereleases George felt confident enough to put out over the last 10 years.

[sleeve]

Originally posted by LordPerrin
Sleeveboy, you need to stop making broad, sweeping generalizations with little basis in fact. You use the word "people" when the word you're looking for is "I". You don't strike me as being a Star Wars fan.

To the contrary, LordPerrin.

I love Star Wars to death. Loved it ever since I was a kid. I've owned the toys, played the games, watched the movies innumerable times. I enjoy the story behind the movies as well. I think the series tells a wonderful story that rivals the Greek epics of yore in terms of scope and gravity of emotion.

At the same time, I am under no delusions as to what Star Wars objectively "is". Neither of the trilogies could ever be considered "high art" by any rational human being. The acting is shoddy, the cinematography dull and conventional, the writing passable at best. But does any of that really matter? Of course not. Why? Because Star Wars tells a great story through the use of state-of-the-art special effects and decent character acting. Star Wars does not succeed on the strength of its acting, writing, or characterization (although all three are part of the larger picture). The one defining element that makes Star Wars Star Wars is, and always will be, special effects.

Does that not make me a SW "fan" if I recognize that fact? No, it just makes me a SW realist.

Now, let me tell you how I, and every other SW fan I know, feel.

Now who's generalizing?

We DO NOT watch these films for special effects alone, thank you. In fact, for me personally, the fx are a very small part of the equation, at least regarding the original trilogy. These films are more than effects, more than a story, they are a mythology, an integral part of my childhood. A mythology in which Han Solo has the brains and balls to SHOOT THAT GREEN BASTARD FIRST, DAMMIT!!

Yeah, I see what you mean about the change, but I think you're reading too much into it. We're talking fractions of a second here. Han Solo still fries Greedo, he's still got his pistol under the table ready to fire. All histrionics aside, Han Solo is largely the same character he was in the original unmodified film.

Suppose you'd grown up dearly loving the Brothers Grimm fairytales, then Walt Disney comes along and sucks the soul right out of them. Tons of ridiculous talking animal sidekicks, and to top it off nobody dies but the villain! Wouldn't you feel violated?

Perhaps, but I think you're exaggerating just a tad.

You say you don't care for Mark Hammill's acting? Fine, go watch A Beautiful Mind or something. But to me, Luke Skywalker is a real person and a dear friend. One whose emotional turmoil I understand quite well, and feel for. And sure Carrie Fisher's not so great in Jedi, when she was on crack... but by then, she'd already established the character well enough, and the others played off her so convincingly, that I never really noticed until recently. And every other performance is pitch perfect, end of story.

Well, I can't say I regard Luke Skywalker as a close personal friend. But maybe I just don't know him well enough. All kidding aside though, I still think I'm a huge fan of SW regardless.

Look, I never said I disliked any of these characters or their actor's performances. I just don't put them on as lofty a pedestal as you do.

ting... dear God, this world sucked me in as a kid. My number one ambition was to be a Jedi knight. And as others have pointed out, CG surrounded by real sets and models looks incredibly fake. The only way George could make it work would be to redo the WHOLE THING in CG, and I don't think any of us want to see that.

Well, I happen to think juxtaposing real live action with miniature models is pretty unrealistic too. Fortunately there's something called "suspension of disbelief" that allows me to bypass that lack of realism. So how is interpolating CG in the middle of a shot any less "real" than watching teeny little spaceships fly in front of a matte screen?

Bottom line is, if you're right about people ONLY watching for the fx, then why is there any interest in seeing them released at all? As you said, nobody cares about 70s fx anymore, so by your reasoning the DVDs won't sell at all, nor did the 4 VHS rereleases George felt confident enough to put out over the last 10 years.

Perhaps I misspoke. SFX aren't the only thing going in SW, but they are the most significant factor by far. Without them, you might as well be watching Battlestar Galactica.

So I hope you understand, LordPerrin, that I love the SW franchise just as highly as you do. But "loving" SW doesn't mean I don't understand what SW is, at bottom: a B-movie series with fantastic special effects and a rich fantasy universe.

[sleeve]

I'd just like to call attention to this Onion column, which very accurately summarizes my feelings on the issues discussed in this thread:

They ruined my Star Wars cereal!