Next Generation magazine returning.

[Joust Williams]

I can say a game is beautiful. It looks beautiful, sounds beautiful, is put together beautifully, etc. I don't need an external review to validate that (maybe you do).


"Art has something useful to say about the human condition"
I don't see that anywhere in any definition.

[MarkRyan]

People call this art:



"Art" is a pretty broad concept.

[Joust Williams]

Exactly ;p

[The_Meach]

Just because something is beautiful doesn't make it art.

If you want to argue that something doesn't have to shed light on what it means to be human in order for it to be considered art...well...be my guest. You'll be left arguing that Tic-Tac-Toe is art but don't let that stop you.

If I remember correctly (looks it up), I think it was Trevor Bell that said, "Art condenses the experience we all have as human beings, and, by forming it, makes it significant."

[Joust Williams]

Trevor Bell isn't Merriam, Webster, or the rest of society though. And even so, games can fit that criteria.

edit: and he is standing next to a piece of crap...I bet that says a lot about the human experience.

[The_Meach]

Trevor Bell isn't Merriam, Webster, or the rest of society though. And even so, games can fit that criteria.

edit: and he is standing next to a piece of crap...I bet that says a lot about the human experience.

I used to deride things I didn't (attempt to) understand. Then I grew up. But I won't discourage you from arguing abstract art is not really art. It will be hard to take you seriously, but go ahead.

You've just made an appeal to the larger society for deciding what is (and what is not) art. If (part) of what makes something art is whether society accepts it as art, videogames are emphatically NOT art. They are playthings. Toys. Even tools. But not art.

[MarkRyan]

Joust is saying art is a broad category, not one that excludes. At least I think so.

[Joust Williams]

You haven't given any reason why videogames aren't art. Other than some definition you made up.

Granted, this is Devil's Advocate, because I don't consider the definition of "sport" to be sufficient.

[sethsez]

Oh great, a "what is art" debate. These are always fun.

Architechture, on the whole, generally doesn't have much to say about the human condition. However, that doesn't mean it's not art.

Piercing dissonance isn't particularly beautiful, but that doesn't mean it can't be art.

Sorry, but claiming that all of videogames are not art because of Tony Hawk, Sonic, et al is like claiming that music isn't art because commercial jingles exist. The existence of commercial products does not preclude the existence of art within the same medium. And since no two people agree on what "art" actually is in the first place, it's a meaningless debate.

[The_Meach]

You haven't given any reason why videogames aren't art

Uh...except that I've already done just that.