Xbox & GameCube vs. 3DO & Jaguar

[Glass Joe]

Originally posted by StriderKyo


But they did continue to support the system - it was pronounced dead at the beginning of february 2001, and Sega's last game came out in february of this year. I agree, SoA could have done more, in the form of Rez, Headhunter and maybe Guilty Gear, but all in all they didn't just drop the thing cold.

They did a shitty job compared to what they said they were going to do. That is lying! If you want to keep supporting them go ahead. I choose to spend my money elsewhere.

[gamevet]

Originally posted by Nigel-The-Landstalker


They did a shitty job compared to what they said they were going to do. That is lying! If you want to keep supporting them go ahead. I choose to spend my money elsewhere.

It was'nt that shitty. We recieved: Alien Front Online, NHL2k2,Tennis2k2,BombermanOnline,PSOVer.2,NFL2k2,NBA2k2,Bass Fishing2, Crazy Taxi2, Daytona Online, Illbleed, Outrigger, Last Blade 2, Fatal Fury:Mark of the Wolves, Sonic Adventure 2, Conflict Zone, Typing of the Dead,Alone In The Dark and World Series 2k2.


Sure we missed out on REZ, Shenmue 2, Gun Valkyrie and Head Hunter, but I think it had more to do with retail support, than Sega. Why would they take a loss, to make a couple 100 thousand DC owners happy. Really, how many of the 3.5 Million or so US gamers, were still purchaseing games for their DC? Shenmue 2 only sold about 160,000 copies in Japan. It really was'nt worth it for Sega to bring the games here, like it or not.


I bought a Dreamcast, because I knew that Sega would bring some great exclusive titles to it. I knew it was an uphill battle fo them, and knew that by the 3rd year, it would have taken a rock to the head,to convince the average Joe, to purchase a system like the DC, with all those other consoles available. I have a friend at work, who recieved a PS2 last Christmas. He does'nt know a good game from a bad one. I give him pointers, to what the good games are. I've mentioned Dreamcast to him and several others at work, in the past, and they did'nt even know what it was.


As a Dreamcast owner, I felt that Sega did everything they could, to support the system, and provided some great online gaming experience along the way.


Will I shun Sega, because they could'nt give me every last game for the Dreamcast? Why would I? I'm going to enjoy what great games they bring to PS2, Gamecube, and if I'm lucky enough to have one, X-Box. Sega is'nt one of the top 3 game publishers, because they make bad games. They just could'nt market a game console, after all the crap they commited into, like 32x and Sega Cd.


Did Sega really shit on me, as a loyal consumer? i don't think so. I would'nt have great Saturn games like Shining Force 3, Burning Rangers, Christmas Nights, Virtua Fighter Remix, Panzer Dragoon Saga, or House of the Dead, if Sega had'nt released them to those gamers who loved the Saturn. At least Sega gave us DC owners a substantial release of games, on a console that was no longer being made.

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by Nigel-The-Landstalker


They did a shitty job compared to what they said they were going to do. That is lying! If you want to keep supporting them go ahead. I choose to spend my money elsewhere.

If you're going to bring lying into it, Nintendo has the all-time classic with their "N64 is an SGI workstation in the home!" hype. Next up is Sony with their missile-launching more-powerful-than-the-hardware-that-did-the-effects-for-Episode One - won't-be-surpassed-for-ten-years nonsense. Those types of lies are far more egregious, since they lead to people dropping hundreds of dollars due to fraudulent promises, as opposed to not spending money on something because it's not there. I'm not sure I even want to get into the morality of Microsoft.

In other words, if that sort of thing is going to stop you from supporting a company, by your morals you have no business playing any games at all.

I was as pissed of as anyone, in fact probably more, that SoA sold off Shenmue II while SoE had the nuts to release it and Rez to a smaller market. It wasn't that I couldn't play the import, rather the fact that I'd suported Sega believing that they'd support the gamer back, that they'd go out with one big title that by rights shouldn't have come out, but would because Sega cares. they didn't, they went out like bitches while tiny Agetec hung on and published one of the best games in years, Mark of the Wolves. But obviously, when you're facing bankruptcy protection, the bean-counters win all the arguments. Blame the shareholders for all this if you're going to blame anyone.

It obviously wasn't an easy decision, SoJ's president was fired and died shortly thereafter. It sounds ridiculous, but when it happened I couldn't help but wonder if seppuku was involved (suicide in one form or another is obscenely prevalent in Japan). SoA and SoE followed with mass layoffs.

In the end, it came down to me being stubborn and not playing any Sega games, or looking at it realistically: Sega and its employees had suffered far more than I did in not being able to play a few games (entertainment! while people are losing their jobs!) on a lower spec system. The games will still come out no matter what I do, all that had happened was that I'd come face-to-face with the fact that the business had an ugly side which Sega, for all their good intentions had smacked into headlong.

Did they make mistakes? Hell yes. But they didn't make any of them to "screw" anyone. I'm sure if they had their way we'd all be playing 32-X and Saturn while Ken Kutaragi was working at Starbucks. The Dreamcast was wedged between Sega's reputation as a failure after Saturn and Sony's headline-grabbing PR war machine, and I think we all knew it had little chance. But man, I hadn't had that good a time with gaming since Street Fighter II on SNES.

Besides, I was gonna get an Xbox anyway. Morrowind looks sweet!

[gamevet]

I hear ya, Strider. I was looking back at an old issue of EGM, and SOny was claiming that the PSX, could push 4.5 million Polygons per second. We all know today, that it was more like 600,000 per second. At least Sega claimed the realisic 500,000 polygons per second, with the Saturn. Sony has went on to claim that the PS2, can push 100 million polygons per second, and from the look of things, the number is more like 15 million max.


We all remember how Nintendo was pushin the Cd unit, but completely failed to bring it out. They kept on saying it was coming, but just could'nt get the facts out. Then there was the Virtual Boy fiasco. Nintendo cut ties with that machine, faster than a stripper, with a lap dance. How many games did the VB recieve, maybe 20 tops, and only about a dozen games in the US.


On a side note, it was'nt the president of Sega that stepped down, it was the president of the parent company CSK, that went into retirement, and from the looks of things, it was his time. He gave Sega a good portion of stock, before leaving and later died of a heart attack. What a stressful business.

[Glass Joe]

Originally posted by StriderKyo


If you're going to bring lying into it, Nintendo has the all-time classic with their "N64 is an SGI workstation in the home!" hype. Next up is Sony with their missile-launching more-powerful-than-the-hardware-that-did-the-effects-for-Episode One - won't-be-surpassed-for-ten-years nonsense. Those types of lies are far more egregious, since they lead to people dropping hundreds of dollars due to fraudulent promises, as opposed to not spending money on something because it's not there. I'm not sure I even want to get into the morality of Microsoft.

In other words, if that sort of thing is going to stop you from supporting a company, by your morals you have no business playing any games at all.

I was as pissed of as anyone, in fact probably more, that SoA sold off Shenmue II while SoE had the nuts to release it and Rez to a smaller market. It wasn't that I couldn't play the import, rather the fact that I'd suported Sega believing that they'd support the gamer back, that they'd go out with one big title that by rights shouldn't have come out, but would because Sega cares. they didn't, they went out like bitches while tiny Agetec hung on and published one of the best games in years, Mark of the Wolves. But obviously, when you're facing bankruptcy protection, the bean-counters win all the arguments. Blame the shareholders for all this if you're going to blame anyone.

It obviously wasn't an easy decision, SoJ's president was fired and died shortly thereafter. It sounds ridiculous, but when it happened I couldn't help but wonder if seppuku was involved (suicide in one form or another is obscenely prevalent in Japan). SoA and SoE followed with mass layoffs.

In the end, it came down to me being stubborn and not playing any Sega games, or looking at it realistically: Sega and its employees had suffered far more than I did in not being able to play a few games (entertainment! while people are losing their jobs!) on a lower spec system. The games will still come out no matter what I do, all that had happened was that I'd come face-to-face with the fact that the business had an ugly side which Sega, for all their good intentions had smacked into headlong.

Did they make mistakes? Hell yes. But they didn't make any of them to "screw" anyone. I'm sure if they had their way we'd all be playing 32-X and Saturn while Ken Kutaragi was working at Starbucks. The Dreamcast was wedged between Sega's reputation as a failure after Saturn and Sony's headline-grabbing PR war machine, and I think we all knew it had little chance. But man, I hadn't had that good a time with gaming since Street Fighter II on SNES.

Besides, I was gonna get an Xbox anyway. Morrowind looks sweet!

First of all you're fucking crazy if you think anyone bought any system because of the bullshit SGI workstation or the rocket launching/emotion engine PR. The only people that even know that are the people that follow the industry, the same people that know better. And who the fuck are you to say I have no business playing games at all? We all know that Nintendo and Sony lied about the power of their systems, show me one company that hasn't done that. At least they didn't run like bitches on 4 systems in a row. The Virtual Boy was a nightmare but anyone who bought that needs their head examined. Even if you want to hold it against Nintendo it's 1 failed miserably system, not 4. If you don't think Sega shit on you that's fine with me, think what you want but don't try to force you're twisted perspective of the truth on me. As far as the people that work at Sega goes, I don't give a fuck about them. As soon as all the DC's were sold they forget we even existed. Fuck them all! And if the final count of games for the Vitual boy was 20, that means it had twice as many games as the 32X right? By the way, don't even bring up handhelds. Another area were Sega brought out some hardware and ran like bitches. I said it before and I'll say it again. After the Genesis, Sega started sucking. I don't care if I never play another Sega game that was made after the 16 bit era. I think they are all very shallow games, and a waste of money. Oh, and maybe Shenmue II only sold 160,000 copies in Japan because it fucking sucks.

[TheSCHLONG!]

Originally posted by Nigel-The-Landstalker
First of all you're fucking crazy if you think anyone bought any system because of the bullshit SGI workstation or the rocket launching/emotion engine PR. The only people that even know that are the people that follow the industry, the same people that know better.

i take it you've never worked in a video game store have you? seriously my friend i did for 5+ years and you'd be amazed what people A.KNOW and B.BELIEVE

it's sad really.

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by Nigel-The-Landstalker


First of all you're fucking crazy if you think anyone bought any system because of the bullshit SGI workstation or the rocket launching/emotion engine PR. The only people that even know that are the people that follow the industry, the same people that know better.

Not at all, those tall tales were widely reported in newspapers. I had friends who had never owned a game system repeating these things back to me. You think people were lined up to buy PS2s for Street Fighter EX 3?

And who the fuck are you to say I have no business playing games at all? We all know that Nintendo and Sony lied about the power of their systems, show me one company that hasn't done that.

Who I am is someone who is using your own logic that lying = I won't support that company. And that was my whole point, that every single gaming company has lied, so using that logic you shouldn't be supporting anyone at all.

At least they didn't run like bitches on 4 systems in a row. The Virtual Boy was a nightmare but anyone who bought that needs their head examined. Even if you want to hold it against Nintendo it's 1 failed miserably system, not 4. If you don't think Sega shit on you that's fine with me, think what you want but don't try to force you're twisted perspective of the truth on me.

You're right. Suddenly the clouds have parted and my insanity has ended...Sega did it all to shit on us gamers. With every 32-X sold there was another clink of champagne glasses at their sinister HQ, knowing that someone else was about to recieve the royal shaft. And on those glorious occasions when the time came to pull the plug on a system the company couldn't afford to support any longer without risking bankruptcy, a loud cheer errupted from the hooded throng of Sega executives as a monsoon of excrement decended upon their customer base. Another victory won.

As far as the people that work at Sega goes, I don't give a fuck about them. As soon as all the DC's were sold they forget we even existed. Fuck them all!

I'm sure they're all sorry they forgot to send you a christmas card.

And if the final count of games for the Vitual boy was 20, that means it had twice as many games as the 32X right?

Other way around. The domestic game count was VB: 14, 32-X: 36. Considering the 32-X was just an add-on, that makes it roughly 12 times as well supported as Nintendo's 64 DD...

By the way, don't even bring up handhelds. Another area were Sega brought out some hardware and ran like bitches.

Or were forced out of the market like Atari, SNK, NEC and several other companies.

I said it before and I'll say it again. After the Genesis, Sega started sucking. I don't care if I never play another Sega game that was made after the 16 bit era. I think they are all very shallow games, and a waste of money.

If my perspective of the truth weren't so twisted I'd quote thousands upon thsouands of reviews that disagree with you.

Oh, and maybe Shenmue II only sold 160,000 copies in Japan because it fucking sucks.

Spoken like someone who's never actually played it.

[SearchManX]

Wow, some intense discussion going on here... I'm bored so I'll bring my crappy opinions with me.

I doubt that we will ever see the hay-days of the SNES and Genesis ever again. The XBOX is struggling just like the Gamecube, simply because all of the games and game ideas that are on them now, have already been done on the PS2, again, a few bright spots excluded. Originality is gone and the market is collapsing. Sooner than later, there will be no "new" games, just rehashes.

Wow, stop living in your "high" of nostalgia. The 16-bit days, if I remember correctly, had it's fair share of crap. It's not like I didn't like 2D, it's just that you become more and more jaded when companies like Acclaim release games like "Batman Forever". The same goes for the NES era. Each generation has its fair share of craptacular games, ESPECIALLY in the early life of a system. How long have the Xbox and GC been out? It's been less then a year over here!!! Give them at least another year and maybe we'll see some better stuff.

And uh... honestly, the Dreamcast had a nice launch and all, but other than Soul Calibur, there was nothing (for me) that was a killer app. For people who liked sports, NFL 2K was their killer app. For people who liked Sonic... well I pity that they were stuck with Sonic Adventure (kidding, people!). But seriously, Sonic Adventure ain't as good as the 16-bit Sonic games (I LOVED Sonic CD and Sonic 2, they were the best of the series, IMO).

This is my opinion and mine alone, the one killer app that I got with my N64, (Super Mario 64, duh) completely wiped out what the DC had to offer. No other game has hooked me as much as SM64 did, it was like that old NES addiction coming back to me all over again. But you gotta admit, Marvel vs Capcom, MvC2, Soul Calibur, oh boy, if there is one thing you gotta give the DC credit for, it was the KING OF FIGHTERS (pun included)! (oh, the killer app for me that made me get a DC was Code Veronica, btw)

I'm not trying to bash the DC, I think that the DC had SO much potential, and although I wasn't crazy about what came DID come out, I am saddened at what "could've" been for the Dreamcast had the PS2 not been announced.

[gamevet]

Originally posted by SearchManX
Wow, some intense discussion going on here... I'm bored so I'll bring my crappy opinions with me.



And uh... honestly, the Dreamcast had a nice launch and all, but other than Soul Calibur, there was nothing (for me) that was a killer app. For people who liked sports, NFL 2K was their killer app. For people who liked Sonic... well I pity that they were stuck with Sonic Adventure (kidding, people!). But seriously, Sonic Adventure ain't as good as the 16-bit Sonic games (I LOVED Sonic CD and Sonic 2, they were the best of the series, IMO).

This is my opinion and mine alone, the one killer app that I got with my N64, (Super Mario 64, duh) completely wiped out what the DC had to offer. No other game has hooked me as much as SM64 did, it was like that old NES addiction coming back to me all over again. But you gotta admit, Marvel vs Capcom, MvC2, Soul Calibur, oh boy, if there is one thing you gotta give the DC credit for, it was the KING OF FIGHTERS (pun included)! (oh, the killer app for me that made me get a DC was Code Veronica, btw)

I'm not trying to bash the DC, I think that the DC had SO much potential, and although I wasn't crazy about what came DID come out, I am saddened at what "could've" been for the Dreamcast had the PS2 not been announced.

I'll admit, if fighters and sports titles don't excite you, the Dreamcast won't exactly be your favorite system of all time, but there were so many other titles, that the aveage gamer did'nt experience. Super Magnetic Neo was a vey unique platform style game. Jet Grind Radio was a new style of extreme skating. Mars Matrix was a great overhead shooter, with a classic old school meets new style of graphics. Shenmue, which some people did'nt have the patience to play, offered a unique gaming style, and pull you in story, but you had to tough out the first disk, to get to the real premise of the game. Skies of Arcadia and Grandia 2 were both great RPG's and some people who were weaned on Final Fantasy VII and up, could'nt appreciate the style of gameplay these 2 RPG's offered. PSO had to be played online, to appreciate what the game was about, and with over 1/2 a million online users, it was defineatly a highly enjoyable game for those who took the plung into the online community. Alien Front Online took the best of what was a FPS, and took away all the shifting through weapons menues, and brough an intense blast fest to those who took it online. Sure PC's have had a ton of great online gaming titles, but as a console, the DC offered plenty of good and great online content.


The PS2 may be a huge commercial success, but to me, it has yet to offer as much great content, as the DC has with a library of games well over 200 titles strong. The Japanese DC last month had 2 titles in the top 20 over there, and still has a loyal following, for a console that is commercially dead.

[Glass Joe]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by StriderKyo




"Who I am is someone who is using your own logic that lying = I won't support that company. And that was my whole point, that every single gaming company has lied, so using that logic you shouldn't be supporting anyone at all."


Um no! My logic isn't so much lying as it is the constant fuck job, system after system that has me Sega hating. You can say anything you want about all of the other companies. Even if what you might say is true the fact is they stuck with their system(with the one exeption being VB) and kept putting out games.




"I'm sure they're all sorry they forgot to send you a christmas card."

And I care because?



"Other way around. The domestic game count was VB: 14, 32-X: 36. Considering the 32-X was just an add-on, that makes it roughly 12 times as well supported as Nintendo's 64 DD..."

I really was just being a wise ass about the 32X debacle. As for the 64DD, at least Nintendo had their right minds not to bring that piece of shit to the USA. Do you think Sega would have showed the same restraint? I don't!




"Or were forced out of the market like Atari, SNK, NEC and several other companies."

1. NEC was never really in the handheld market. They just released a system that played already existing games. That would be like me holding the Nomad against Sega, which I don't.
2. SNK pulled the ultimate Sega with the NEO GEO pocket color. Release the system and then run for the hills. Why even bother releasing it?



"If my perspective of the truth weren't so twisted I'd quote thousands upon thsouands of reviews that disagree with you."

Quote anyone you want. It's not going to make me like any of the shit games ( IMO ) that Sega releases.



"Spoken like someone who's never actually played it."

I'm sure it's a vastly different experience then part 1 was. I believe Gamevet said something earlier about people not having the patients to play Shenmue. I have plenty of patients, I think the game sucked. How many times can you walk up to the same person and have them treat you like you never met before? Couple that with that pansy's constant "I SEE" and you'll see why most people shit on the game.