Reform or Revolution?

[Gohron]

YEAH NEVER MESS WITH GOD'S AMERICA WHOO!

Oh shit, it's flag day. I need some lighter fluid, that rag everyone invests all their nationalistic garbage into, and a large venue STAT!

I don't know what my comment has to do with nationalism or any of that bullshit, to be quiet honest I've let most of my political views go in the past few months and instead am seeing the manupulitive mass known as our government (and that's a jab at the whole thing).

Regardless, my comment is the truth. Do you honestly think that the most heavily armed and trained populace in the world would just sit in their lawn chairs and drink beer while their country was being invaded? You're urgent need to defend your anti-right wing politics constantly is getting really old. There really is no need for you to slander anything that could possibly be related to Conservative ideals.

Actually, when you get down to brass tacks the PRC is smarter than to consider open warfare with the US. They know they can sit back and slowly drain away our economy by forcing a bidding war for oil with us and selling cheap to megacorps like Wal-Mart so that soon the U.S. has to rely on the PRC for the majority of its consumer goods (do we already?).

Most of their military is for maintaining the infrastructure and keeping a good legion of Chinese loyal to the party. It's a working strategy, they won't be in a hurry to change it.

True, but what the fuck does that have to do with my response to Voltz original post? Maybe you should go back and read it.

You can't really argue that they're not building up their conventional forces in preperation for an open conflict with the US though, whether it will ever happen or not.

It took a small group of men one September morning to completely invalidate our armed forces model. The massive mobile army of tanks, jets, submarines, and carrier groups is really useless to us now. There is no foe who'll meet us in a fight on open terrain. But, there is an inexhaustable number who'll fight a guerilla war that will slowly drain the U.S. military of its resolve. We saw it in Vietnam, and we'll see it again unless the military evolves from what it is into something more.

You're probably already sneering at me by now, so let me direct you to this book which outlines everything and is written by someone far smarter in the ways of these things than you or I.

Yeah, but what does that have to do with China? Conventional conflicts don't come too often because the parties involved know how destructive they will be. If we ever duke it out with China or the EU, or whoever the fuck has a reasonable military I don't think we'll be doing house-to-house sweeping in a bunch of small villages looking for somebody that we can't even identify.

[g0zen]

I don't know what my comment has to do with nationalism or any of that bullshit, to be quiet honest I've let most of my political views go in the past few months and instead am seeing the manupulitive mass known as our government (and that's a jab at the whole thing).

Regardless, my comment is the truth. Do you honestly think that the most heavily armed and trained populace in the world would just sit in their lawn chairs and drink beer while their country was being invaded? You're urgent need to defend your anti-right wing politics constantly is getting really old. There really is no need for you to slander anything that could possibly be related to Conservative ideals.

Your whole line is the EXACT rhetoric of all those far-right militia groups. It's that Turner Diaries bullshit that DIRECTLY led to Oklahoma City. If you want to hole up in the woods with an arsenal and say the government is shit, fine by me, but it always ends with the want to CHANGE the government rather than just resist it. Thats what Oklahoma City was supposed to do, throw the government into upheaval so these militia groups could takeover in the chaos that ensued. It was madness, just like the whole Helter Skelter business, but they went ahead and tried it anyway.

The point I was trying to make is that your gut immediate reaction is armed resistance, as if that was the single and only way. It's that kind of thinking that's dangerous, and if you want to cry about me pointing it out, whatever.

True, but what the fuck does that have to do with my response to Voltz original post? Maybe you should go back and read it.

Uh..Everything, try re-reading it yourself.

You can't really argue that they're not building up their conventional forces in preperation for an open conflict with the US though, whether it will ever happen or not.

Yes I can, because they aren't. Are they modernizing their force? Of course, they're a burgeoning world power, of course they're going to try and make their military the best it can be. However, the idea that the PRC is building up solely in preparation for some planned war on the US is moronic. China doesn't want a war with the U.S., they just Taiwan. They'll build themselves up, while at the same time draining us, until when they finally do take it we won't do anything about it.

Yeah, but what does that have to do with China? Conventional conflicts don't come too often because the parties involved know how destructive they will be. If we ever duke it out with China or the EU, or whoever the fuck has a reasonable military I don't think we'll be doing house-to-house sweeping in a bunch of small villages looking for somebody that we can't even identify.

You really don't have any idea about current military theory do you? This is the ONLY way wars will be fought in the future. Take N. Korea for example, their entire military as it is designed now is based on the principle that they will fight a defensive guerilla war against the US using a massive network of tunnels and hidden bases to keep Kim and the other generals safe while they draw the US into their kind of war. The best way to stop them would be to take out Kim and these leaders, because under their regime they are the crux on which the government's power rests.

If you don't think it would come down to sweeping house to house and every wormy hole from Kaesong to Najin for that platform shoe wearing bastard, you're wrong.

[Diff-chan]

There's no way China, or anyone else, is planning to fight the US in a war-as-we-think-of-war in the future. War is undergoing a fundamental shift nowadays, much like it did during the Civil War as it evolved away from the Napoleonic style to the style we had for the 20th century.

Youve been playing too much C&C: Generals, Gohron.

[g0zen]

C&C: Generals was great for the GLA Angry Mob - "AKs for EVERYONE!"

[Diff-chan]

Battlefield 2 also has the China vs. US vs. Middle Eastern terrorists setup.

[Fe 26]

Do you honestly think that the most heavily armed and trained populace in the world would just sit in their lawn chairs and drink beer while their country was being invaded?

yes. Americans are terrified of death. People are already sacrificing freedom for protection, why do you think that would change if we had a change in who ruled?

[Diff-chan]

You cant really believe this, living in Mississippi. Ive lived in the wussy states of New Jersey and California my whole life and dont believe it. Any foreign army sets food in our country and people will go ape shit. People wont stand for that shit. Americans arent terrified of death when the cause is justified, and an invasion would provide that cause.

Like, look, recruiting skyrocketed in the months after 9/11. That should tell you how wrong you are, for reals.

[Fe 26]

You cant really believe this, living in Mississippi. Ive lived in the wussy states of New Jersey and California my whole life and dont believe it. Any foreign army sets food in our country and people will go ape shit. People wont stand for that shit. Americans arent terrified of death when the cause is justified, and an invasion would provide that cause.

Like, look, recruiting skyrocketed in the months after 9/11. That should tell you how wrong you are, for reals.

so if we got invaded you would run out and shoot people? You'd just go all nut bars, and probably get shot, leaving your family that less able to defend itself?

No, you would probably buckle down with your family and not fight unless you

A) have to or B) are able to become a part of a organized resistance.


People talk a lot of shit about how they will do this and that, but in the end they are going to try to protect their families and stay alive. They may not lay down and take it up the ass but they probably wont go nuts either. If you will remember this has always been a key difference between Americans and other countries. When we fought the Japanese they would go nuts and send everyone after us. This usually ended in them all dying. The Americans on the other hand were much more conservative.

There is a difference from people enlisting which is smart because it increases your odds of living and beating the enemy, and what Gohron is talking about. Americans are not going to go ape shit, there is no precedence for it. They most likely will fight, but only if they have the chance to get organized. Up until this point that is how Americans have always reacted. For the masses to go totally nuts something really bad would have to happen to make the people lose hope and become desperate.

[kedawa]

All china has to do to defeat the US is send wave after wave of soldiers to her shores, and have them surrender to the first person they meet. As prisoners of war the US is obligated by international law to feed and house the soldiers. The cost of detaining millions of POWs would bankrupt the country in no time.

[Mman]

All china has to do to defeat the US is send wave after wave of soldiers to her shores, and have them surrender to the first person they meet. As prisoners of war the US is obligated by international law to feed and house the soldiers. The cost of detaining millions of POWs would bankrupt the country in no time.

This is genious!

But seriously, if for some insain reason some foreign body decided to invaid America nearly every able-bodied American would defend the country any way they possibly could. America has this weird duality where we hate ourselves and fight each other tooth and nail...until there is an actual threat. The ability for Americans to manifest patriotism when needed is staggering, and has nothing to do with what side of the political spectrum you sit on. Both left and right wingers would fight for this country because at the root of it they both love America for whatever crazy ass reason they make up in their head. The only people I suspect you would not see fight are the super-rich and powerful (of course) and pussys like g0zen. And by fight, I don't mean go down to the local sports store and buy a gun and start shooting enemy soldiers. I mean that they would enlist or form organzied militias to defend towns. I personally don't know a single person who would not dedicate themselves 100% to do whatever it takes if this situation came around (which it never actually will anyway...which invalidates this whole line of conversation and my entire post).