Saturn article on 1UP

[Jeremy]

Sega made a ton of missteps, and I'm glad SOMEONE was willing to make them.

[Dyne]

it was Sega's burning stock in Japan that killed it.

true. i just wish more people would read The Scribe's SEGA history before they blab off the usual "anti-DC/Saturn" drevel that always comes up. because the people that actually KNOW why the systems failed are laughing at the ones that don't at this very moment.

Wow. There's actually new (to me at least) information in there. I never realized that the Saturn architecture was a result of a Chinese fire drill to combat the PS1's architecture.

you can no longer troll here not knowing this fact. you bring shame to the under bridge dwellers.

[Diff-chan]

Not to say Sega didn't make a ton of missteps, that goes without saying, but as others will no doubt attest to, you sound like a complete and utterly biased fool when you say "they didn't put enough effort into marketing" then contradict yourself when you say "they shouldn't have even tried"

I didnt say they didnt put enough effort into marketing, I said their marketing was terrible. And it was.

And I say they shouldnt have tried because the Sega brand had no value in it after the SegaCD, the 32X, and the Saturn. I knew people, plenty of people who bought a Saturn and only had to buy a PlayStation shortly after to play new games. A lot of those people were Genesis fans, but do you think any of them bothered with Dreamcast? A lot of analysts said that the Dreamcast would have a tough go because of the damage Sega did to their brand, and guess what, they were right! Use your head.

And Seganet was an abortion, never mind how many people loved playing DC games online, me included.

Thats nice, but read early articles on Sega's strategy, online was supposed to figure prominently and be their main weapon against PS2. What ended up coming out was a laggy, awful nightmare, filled with crappy games and hard-to-find broadband adapters. SegaNet was a nonstarter, it went nowhere, and it got them no new customers. It was a failure. I played three or four games for it: Chu Chu Rocket was laggy as fuck, Daytona USA was a sorry sorry joke, PSO was a substandard Diablo clone, and Unreal Tournament was nifty but not nearly as good as the PC game. Not impressive.

It just wouldve been better if they went third party way before they did. Because now theyre terrible, and it wouldve been cool if some of their good DC games ended up on PS2.

I think this could've been done.

Model 2 was also fairly expensive. Its not like today, where most arcade boards are built on game consoles (System 11, based on PSX, started this). Arcade boards back then were engineered to be high performance and high price. You couldnt really cram a Model 2 into an affordable system.

[Some Stupid Japanese Name]

Did I call for a boycott or something? We are talking videogames, and as such should be talking about them accurately when possible. I would think that the hundreds of developers who were creating computer games during that era would appreciate receiving a little credit and attention.

[Dyne]

Did I call for a boycott or something? We are talking videogames, and as such should be talking about them accurately when possible. I would think that the hundreds of developers who were creating computer games during that era would appreciate receiving a little credit and attention.

you speak the truth but its never remembered that way.

[1CCOSA]

I didnt say they didnt put enough effort into marketing, I said their marketing was terrible. And it was.

And I say they shouldnt have tried because the Sega brand had no value in it after the SegaCD, the 32X, and the Saturn. I knew people, plenty of people who bought a Saturn and only had to buy a PlayStation shortly after to play new games. A lot of those people were Genesis fans, but do you think any of them bothered with Dreamcast? A lot of analysts said that the Dreamcast would have a tough go because of the damage Sega did to their brand, and guess what, they were right! Use your head.



Thats nice, but read early articles on Sega's strategy, online was supposed to figure prominently and be their main weapon against PS2. What ended up coming out was a laggy, awful nightmare, filled with crappy games and hard-to-find broadband adapters. SegaNet was a nonstarter, it went nowhere, and it got them no new customers. It was a failure. I played three or four games for it: Chu Chu Rocket was laggy as fuck, Daytona USA was a sorry sorry joke, PSO was a substandard Diablo clone, and Unreal Tournament was nifty but not nearly as good as the PC game. Not impressive.



Model 2 was also fairly expensive. Its not like today, where most arcade boards are built on game consoles (System 11, based on PSX, started this). Arcade boards back then were engineered to be high performance and high price. You couldnt really cram a Model 2 into an affordable system.

1."The brand"? Is that all that matters to you? Regardless, the Sega name still had goodwill from the Genesis days. Not to say that was enough, but at least they tried to build on it with a lineup of games that was far beyond what the Saturn offered (non import)

2. It was widely pointed out in reviews that Chu Chu and Daytona were lagged. What's your point? Those were the exception. Other games like Alien Front Online, the 2K series and PSO were remarkably smooth for dial up connection. Besides, this was before BB became the standard anyways. The people that played PSO, still do and will with PSO Universe won't give a crap that you think that it's a "Diablo clone."

I knew people, plenty of people who bought a Saturn and only had to buy a PlayStation shortly after to play new games.

So? I knew plenty of people like me, who bought a DC who were disappointed....when Sega's stock in Japan killed a system they were thoroughly enjoying which had a ton of great games to choose from. Of course the PS2 would have outsold it regardless. That is a non point. The fact is though if their bottom line hadn't exploded the system would still continue to have sold well which it DID in the U.S. and Europe. It had a mind blowingly successful launch in North America, people could not wait to get their hands on it and lined up to buy it, despite the fact that "Sega killed all its goodwill." Again. Sega's stock in Japan killed it. End of story.

If anything, Sega has made more mistakes as a third party then they ever did with the DC.

[Kev]

Model 2 was also fairly expensive. Its not like today, where most arcade boards are built on game consoles (System 11, based on PSX, started this). Arcade boards back then were engineered to be high performance and high price. You couldnt really cram a Model 2 into an affordable system.

I understand that the Model 2 was expensive and proprietary. I do agree that it would've been an undertaking to get that board small enough and cheap enough to mass produce. But I believe the company that made it (Lockheed Martin) could have done just that. They have the technical know-how, what with being one of the leading manufacturers (sp?) of combat technology.

I remember seeing the Saturn being initially sold from as 'low' as $399.99 to as high as $599.99 back when it was launched in 1995. Granted, Sega of America itself was caught off guard selling the system early as it did, and hindsight is always much clearer than the present... but even early on when they announced the Saturn, it occured to me as strange that they didn't use what they had under their noses. At any rate, for $400.00 to $600.00, I would have rather had a Model 2.

Not saying anyone is 'wrong' or 'right', but remember those Final Fantasy 7 ads Squaresoft ran stating how FF7 would retail for over $1,000.00 if it were on cartridge? Roughly two years later, Capcom manages to get Resident Evil 2 (a far more graphically intense game than FF7) on the N64 for less than $100.00? $79.99 if I recall correct? That's how I feel about a Model 2 based Saturn. The whole 'it'd be too expensive' argument just doesn't hold quite as much weight due to the fact that no one tried.

But again, for better or worse, the Saturn is history. Anything said now about what should've and could've been is speculation and opinion.

[Ex Ranza]

The Model 2 was out before the Saturn. Daytona was a game being brought over from the Model 2 to the Saturn..

Oops, you're right. Daytona came out in 1993, apparently. My memory fails meh.

Though I'm in doubt about their accuracy, the 1UP article claims the Saturn was a combination of the System 32 board and the Model 1 arcade board. Both those boards are larger than the Model 2.

Both System 32 and Model 1 were powered by an NEC processor, so yeah, unlike the Genesis' relationship to System 16, Saturn bears no resemblance to Sega's arcade hardware of the time.

I think this could've been done.

I gotta disagree. There's just no way anyone, even Lockheed, could take an arcade board that costs thousands of dollars, adapt it for consumer use, and get it out at a reasonable price point. I mean, I'm sure it could have been done, but if it was so expensive that no one would buy it, there would be no point.

[1CCOSA]

Naomi redeemed the dev factor of their arcade sector big time.

[Fe 26]

It just wouldve been better if they went third party way before they did. Because now theyre terrible, and it wouldve been cool if some of their good DC games ended up on PS2.

so you wouldn't have to drag out your DC to play the games you like?

boohoohoo T_T

If anything, Sega has made more mistakes as a third party then they ever did with the DC.

ain't that the truth.