J Allard chat transcript

[Schlep]

Okay, enough. I'm not having this discussion with you anymore. You're sitting there insulting me when A) you obviously don't know what you're on about, and B) you're too lazy to go check anybody's coverage of Sony's E3 & Japanese PS3 conferences yourself. I'm not running around the bloody internet getting you links at 12:30 am because you desperately want to believe your 360's getting Metal Gear.

I never insulted you on anything, I said it read like you're pulling shit out of your ass. "Sony's already locked up most of the top franchises..." is what you said, and I asked for a link so I could find out what franchises these are. Madden exclusive to PS3? No. NBA 2kx or NBA Live? No. Burnout? No. Splinter Cell? No. Grand Theft Auto? Not from what Take 2 is saying. So what are all these major franchises that Sony has locked up for the next few years? And no, I don't give a shit about Metal Gear.

A term like "not wired"? You know, like the controllers that aren't universally standard on 360? I think that's a pretty good indication you can start making crazy assumptions like "hey, there won't be a PS3 core pack with wired controllers."

So less options then? If the PS3 controllers are even nearly as expensive as the Xbox 360 controllers, I'd like to have the option of wired to save some cash. It's also kinda cool that I can use an Xbox 360 wired controller on the PC; ending the drought of horrible PC controllers.

Not really, no.

Ah, but a feature like Bluetooth, which is just a marketing name for a specific frequency, is a better "feature"?

Blu-ray is a better "feature" even though such a limited percentage of houses even have the ability to notice the difference between a blu-ray dvd and a standard dvd right now? And also that 99.9% of movies aren't filmed in HD, so it's not gonna matter for a while anyways?

Even though Doom 3, probably still the best looking game out there, is 1.3 gigs total? Games are getting a little larger every year, but not on the scale of gigs at a time. Maybe at the end of the Xbox 360's life, we'll start to see a few games on 2 DVDs...big whoop.

The PS3 looks cool on paper and all, and I'm gonna keep tabs on it to see if I can work it into my budget. By the same token, the Xbox 360 isn't a piece of shit like you seem to be arguing.

[Omni]

Jezz, they're game consoles, neither of them are that much different from any other and in the end it all comes down to games. Not having the HD standard is stupid but it's not the end of the world.

No matter what anyone says PlayStation still has the most brand recognition, it gets the most exclusives and devs trust it. If I have the pick one system I'm gonna go with Sony, but it all comes down to preference.

Buying a system at launch is stupid anyway, but once again, I guess that's just me.

And over-priced, monopolized peripheals don't make anyone happy.

[kedawa]

With all the ambivalence toward the 360 here in the west, where MS has at least some marketshare this gen, I have to wonder what japanese gamers are saying about it right now.

Without a respectable presence in japan, MS is never going to get the sort of 3rd party support that sony gets, and it needs that to be on top.

Shit, all sony needs to crush the 360 in every market this time around is to have the top next-gen FPS on PS3.

That's really the only genre that's better on XBOX, since the PS2 library has the best of everything else.

[Schlep]

With all the ambivalence toward the 360 here in the west, where MS has at least some marketshare this gen, I have to wonder what japanese gamers are saying about it right now.

What people are saying on message boards about the 360, PS3, and Revolution doesn't matter for sales. People get on the internet and say stupid shit.

Shit, all sony needs to crush the 360 in every market this time around is to have the top next-gen FPS on PS3.

That's really the only genre that's better on XBOX, since the PS2 library has the best of everything else.

The Xbox beats the PS2 on multiplatform games due to graphics and Live play. In addition to better FPS games, they also have better racing games due to the analog triggers.

[kedawa]

Oh yeah, and everyone who thinks 360 games won't support caching are really getting worked up over nothing, since caching is a trivial thing to implement.

[TobalRox]

Most people don't shop at EB and Gamestop, they shop at Wal-Mart. Try asking Bubba and Beatrice from Wally World what the differences are between the $300 and $400 XBoxes are. That is if you have time between the fights in the ailes at christmas time. Even the stores with knowlegeble salesmen will not have the time to consult on system purchases for 15min per person.

it's not tough to figure out "you get more" with the more expensive system. If they get the cheaper one, and little Billy complains, tell Billy he can exchange it and pay the difference, or save up for the shit himself.

i like how J said it has a dual layer dvd drive. WTF is a DL reading drive? i was under the impression every dvd rom reads dual layer discs. the only time its a selling point is in a burner.

If you add more words, it sounds like you're getting more! Maybe in some warped way they were trying to show that it was better since most PS2 games are single layer DVDs....

[kedawa]

What people are saying on message boards about the 360, PS3, and Revolution doesn't matter for sales. People get on the internet and say stupid shit.

True, but I'd still think the general attitude will be indiiference, and I don't think the consumer's attitude will differ much come november.

The Xbox beats the PS2 on multiplatform games due to graphics and Live play. In addition to better FPS games, they also have better racing games due to the analog triggers.

You're right about cross-platform, but the opposite will be true this time around.

[TobalRox]

Supposedly HD-DVD is already running into trouble with studios...Paramount is taking a wait and ee approach with the thing, and the Blu Ray guys run the DVD standards council. I think the real reason MS didn't go with HD-DVD is that the players won't be available from Toshiba until Christmas at the earliest, quite probably later. They haven't even been able to start manufacturing them yet. I guess MS couldn't bank on them getting the first drives to push the format.

They had an official announcement that there will NOT be HD-DVD at the end of the year like they had hoped. They are going to try again at a chance to unify the formats.

Developers (well okay, Itagaki, but I'm sure he's not alone) have already said they're coming close filling up DVDs on 360. Hi-def CG + HD graphics + lots of voice + 3 megs of XB 360 security features = that 9 meg DVD gets filled up real fast. Blu Ray has 45 megs. That'll accomodate any next gen Final Fantasy, MGS or GTA quite nicely. And don't sell the "only good for movies" part short - Hollywood pushed PS2 with DVD, and it's carried PSP. The advantages of Blu Ray are obvious - if they can convince consumers to eat the extra $10 it takes to manufacture them in the beginning, there's no reason it won't become standard. Heck, there's no reason PS3 won't make it the de facto standard - it'll probably have more marketing behind it than HD-DVD will.

I think you mean GIGS and not megs. Also, Blu-Ray can hold up to 200 gigs, since each layer holds 25 gigs. I didn't really understand what you said after that about hollywood pushing the Ps2... please explain. Anyway, the way I see it, if people play a 4 CD PS1 game, why not multiple DVDs? Nothing new there. Hell, Phantasmagoria on PC was 7 CDs back in the day.

The way I see all this, get an extended warrenty from whatever store you get it from. The price drops, you get that money back... don't like the system? Get the money back and put it all towards your PS3. What do you have to lose?

They said PS3 will have an HDD right from the start - it's just a question of whether it will be standard. Probably not, because MS left the door wide open on that one, and because they want to push the memory stick format.

I read that Sony said an HD will come out, but not at launch because they won't have it ready in time.

The Xbox beats the PS2 on multiplatform games due to graphics and Live play. In addition to better FPS games, they also have better racing games due to the analog triggers.

Faster loading times too. Some people prefer the analog placement on the xbox too (doesn't matter to me). In game 5.1 gives it more points in winning, and although it may be considered graphics, Xbox has more support for progressive scan, and unlike any other system out now, has support for 720p and 1080i. Custom Soundtracks and downloadable content is nice too. No multi-tap needed for 4 player gaming, and some games have more options for multiplayer due to the extra power the Xbox has.

[SonofdonCD]

Enh, I can deal. I'd rather pay $500 for the mother of all future-proof consoles than $400 for something that hasn't shown much that blows the doors off current gen. (PGR 3 was playable supposedly not looking nearly as good as in photos at the German GC - less light sourcing, no filters, lower frame rate - though I believe they can get the fps up to snuff. But still, they've got like 2 months to get it into testing.)

From Bizarre:

And the reason why that build was shown was twofold - firstly, it was one of the few spare kits we have (they're like gold dust here!) and secondly, because the newer build, even though it's running fast and looking better than the older builds, is only just up and running on the new kits. This means it's pretty unstable, with plenty of crashes, strange bugs and other issues to fix.

For presentation purposes, it was safer for us to show a slower build that was more stable than a newer one on the new kits that might crash due to some unforseen problem with the porting process. We're at that horrible time in development where everything is being pulled together, meaning that there's a lot of instability around - fixing one thing seems to just break another!

But the nearer we get to completion, the better it gets...

Supposedly HD-DVD is already running into trouble with studios...

That's one reason it'd be foolish to wait. Time is not a luxury MS has against Sony.

Developers (well okay, Itagaki, but I'm sure he's not alone) have already said they're coming close filling up DVDs on 360. Hi-def CG + HD graphics + lots of voice + 3 megs of XB 360 security features = that 9 meg DVD gets filled up real fast. Blu Ray has 45 megs. That'll accomodate any next gen Final Fantasy, MGS or GTA quite nicely.

There's much in the way of compression that you fail to acknowledge, and let's not forget that most if not all PC games (which have been High Def for a while now) have not come close to maxing out a DVD. Last but not least the fact that like I said, multi DVD's if anything.

And don't sell the "only good for movies" part short - Hollywood pushed PS2 with DVD, and it's carried PSP. The advantages of Blu Ray are obvious - if they can convince consumers to eat the extra $10 it takes to manufacture them in the beginning, there's no reason it won't become standard. Heck, there's no reason PS3 won't make it the de facto standard - it'll probably have more marketing behind it than HD-DVD will.

My point was that it's not set in stone. It could happen, it could not. I personally don't care, since DVD's are the current standard, and I don't see the majority of this country wanting to recollect all their favorite movies yet again on another format so soon.

Nah, there's no on-paper. PS3's unquestionably more powerful, even if you just look at fact that there's faster RAM access and the GPU's a notch up, never mind cpu cores. The only thing that can stop it is if it's like PS2, and half the developers can't figure out parallel processors.

That was my main point. By all accounts the 360 is easier to develop for. We don't know if devs will be able to tap all the extra power out of the PS3. Hence the "On paper" remark (plus, there is no finished PS3 system yet, so it is "On paper" ). Theoretically most people say it's more powerful, but we'll see how that pans out in actual real-time performance.

So given that 360's been kind of underwhelming from the MTV presentation to E3 to the Japanese conference to the pricing/SKU announcement, it just makes too much sense to stick with what I've got for now and go for the more powerful system with more games. If you can swing both in the next year, go for it.

I'm kinda bummed about that too, but you gotta look at the overall picture. Halo didn't look so hot right before Xbox dropped, right? Look how that turned out.

Plus, does having less powerful hardware make it worthless, in and of itself, if it has what you want? I mean the systems aren't even out and you and many others are already saying that MS are doomed. It just seems like everyone is being very overdramatic, especially since we don't know fully what Sony is up to. With very little details Sony has already won the PR battle, it seems. But I thought that we, the "Hardcore gamers" for lack of a better term, could see through all that?

While I can see where you come up with your findings, it's still mostly conjecture.

Some people care about the $100, but I think alot were just disappointed that 360's already less powerful, and it's being hamstrung right out of the gate by developers having to "assume the HDD won't be there to use."

See, I don't know anyone who thinks that, besides some message board regulars here and places like Beyond3D and Gaming-Age. But even then you make 360 sound like an aborted child, as if it never had a chance at survival. I think we should wait a bit and see how things develop. There are way too many variables to consider before we can say anything but an educated guess. Also, lest we forget that Sony has some catching up to do on the online infastructure front as well. So It's not all gloom and doom for MS.

[StriderKyo]

I didn't really understand what you said after that about hollywood pushing the Ps2... please explain.

Just the number of people who bought it in large part because it was a DVD player. Same with PSP - a huge % of its software sales are UMD movies.

I read that Sony said an HD will come out, but not at launch because they won't have it ready in time.

How can you not have an HDD ready, and know that a year in advance? It's not like it's an exotic component to manufacture, unless it really does have super-secret photo aging metaphysical technology inside.

Plus, does having less powerful hardware make it worthless, in and of itself, if it has what you want? I mean the systems aren't even out and you and many others are already saying that MS are doomed. It just seems like everyone is being very overdramatic, especially since we don't know fully what Sony is up to. With very little details Sony has already won the PR battle, it seems. But I thought that we, the "Hardcore gamers" for lack of a better term, could see through all that?

Of course graphics don't make something worthless - heck, I own a DS. But these two systems are both trying to do pretty much the same thing; which is why really, it just comes down to my "if you're only going to get one" argument.

I have never said 360 is shitty, or worthless, despite what some people seem to be reading into my comments. I was probably more excited for it than anyone here until recently, but I think they've dropped the ball here. PS3 just has more power + better hardware features (that $100 360 wireless adaptor is ridiculous, especially when both PS3 & Rev have it built in) + more games = me waiting.

If I come across a spare $700 I'll change my mind.