J Allard chat transcript

[Tommy Tallarico]

Having two systems doesn't make it so the consumer has more choices, it makes it so the consumer ends up making no choice.

This system is going to bomb hard. They've already scared away the hardcore gamers with their hard drive bullshit and inability to follow through on the good things they did with the first Xbox, and they're sure as fuck going to piss off parents, teenagers and kids that didn't realize how shafted they got when they cheaped out for a Core System.

[StriderKyo]

I personally didn't get the Xbox because it was the most powerful system (though it was a perk). I got it because of Halo. I got it because of those early Sega games and Splinter Cell. DOA, Ninja Gaiden and the promise of Fable (not all was delivered, obviously). You get my point.

Of course. Games are always the reason to buy something. If PS3 isn't coming until next fall I may just get a 360 anyway - RR6, Oblivion, Frame City Killer, PGR3, those all look worth getting, and I can always trade it in if need be. Most people will end up owning both down the road when it's more affordable and the must-have games have come put for both. But that won't be for another 2-3 years.

And if you think the 360 is inferior tech in every way, do you honestly think Sony will charge less or even the same for their superior tech?

No, they'll undoubtedly charge more. I don't mind paying as long as I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. I just really don't like the decisions Microsoft's been making all summer.

Sony hasn't shown anything of the PS3 except a few graphs, hardware specs based on components that havent even been built, an ugly-ass controller, some prerendered demos and a list of stupid Japanese games that may or may not be coming out in some form.

Except for the in-game footage of I8, Gundam & Unreal, and announced exclusives for Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, Tekken, MGS4, timed exclusive for GTA 4 etc. - I'm pretty sure those'll come out.

Stop pulling shit from your ass.

Okay, just for you, let's pretend companies won't throw their support behind Playstation like they did the last two generations, even though MS has little presence in Japan or Europe, weaker hardware, no Final Fantasy XIII, Dragon Quest, MGS, GTA 4 for months, and supports no high definition media. Let's also pretend PS3 won't be the native platform for 90% of Japanese development.

I'm sure the fact that less developers have announced 360 than PS3 support means we'll see more 360 exclusives. I don't know where I get this crazy stuff. Oh wait, yes I do - the analysts who've been saying all along PS3 will take 60% of the market this gen, and are probably furiously ratcheting up those estimates as we speak.

MS has said that games will load faster on systems with HD's...unless you have some better source?

StriderKyo has used his brain to see through marketing speak to see that games will use the HDD for caching if the developers can be bothered to optimize for it, because the device doesn't do it by itself. Making the HDD non-standard decreases the chances of this happening frequently. That would be my better source.

Unbelievably obvious. Except we don't know what all is coming out for 360, and what all is coming out for PS3, or even what is coming for the Revolution. The PS3 could be the greatest thing ever, but right now all it is is a slightly more powerful spec that apparently costs $490 to build.

Did you really need to see the future release dates for every game this past generation to know which system was going to come out ahead? I really have no love for Sony - a part of me still hates them for murdering the Dreamcast, and I got better entertainment out of my Xbox than I did my PS2, but every single advantage MS had last generation has now shifted to Sony.

[1CCOSA]

Uhh so you can play a few of the older games? More people want to play Halo 2 than Pulse Racer, so they're accomodating that. I'm sure with enough time they could get a fully working emulator but time is a luxury they dont have.

Uh, that's kind of a weak excuse since uhhhh, the Revolution and PS3 have backwards compatibility that numbers into uhhh hundreds and hundreds of older titles. That's a consumer bonus any way you cut it.

It makes MS look lazy not to mention (theory) desperate to push a few extra first gen XBoxes off the shelf. And I don't care about compatibility issues with their video card, if Nintendo can get emulated NES, SNES, N64 and and all GC games running and Sony can get PS1 titles running on PS3 then MS could have found a way to make all of their library compatible.

time is a luxury they dont have

Then maybe MS and Allard need to budget their time and priorities better.

I dont think a Perfect Dark sequel was ever supposed to be on N64... considering the original came out in the twilight of the N64.

Yes it was, it was cancelled. Sites reported on supposed problems including infighting going on at RARE over the game quite a few months before the Cube was ever released. Then it was slated to be "moved" to GC then eventually the big N said "no more Rare for us."

You get a lot more than just the HD with the $399 pack. Don't be retarded.

Sure it has extras but isn't it also kind of "retarded" for MS to take such a risk by making two different packages and all but completely undermining the gains they made with the XBox's built in hard drive? Unbundling the HD far negates any bells and whistles included with the overpriced 399 pack.

It will lead to consumer confusion among Joe Bob dummy consumer population who foots most of the bill, not us net folks who know which pack would be better to get.

Sony hasn't shown anything of the PS3 except a few graphs, hardware specs based on components that havent even been built, an ugly-ass controller, some prerendered demos and a list of stupid Japanese games that may or may not be coming out in some form. The system is riding on the internet's hot air right now. It worked for PS2, and its working again - but that doesnt mean the PS3 is the "better system". Im still waiting for some real info/games. Kuturagi's talk of aging videos and shit certainly isnt making me rush to EB to preorder.

I agree. Too bad your whining about other companies besides MS has nothing to do with the thread's subject.

[Schlep]

Okay, just for you, let's pretend companies won't throw their support behind Playstation like they did the last two generations, even though MS has little presence in Japan or Europe, weaker hardware, no Final Fantasy XIII, Dragon Quest, MGS, GTA 4 for months, and supports no high definition media. Let's also pretend PS3 won't be the native platform for 90% of Japanese development.

I'm sure the fact that less developers have announced 360 than PS3 support means we'll see more 360 exclusives. I don't know where I get this crazy stuff. Oh wait, yes I do - the analysts who've been saying all along PS3 will take 60% of the market this gen, and are probably furiously ratcheting up those estimates as we speak.

Give me links to this info.

StriderKyo has used his brain to see through marketing speak to see that games will use the HDD for caching if the developers can be bothered to optimize for it, because the device doesn't do it by itself. Making the HDD non-standard decreases the chances of this happening frequently. That would be my better source.

StriderKyo is my least trusted analyst since he isn't even in the games or financial analysis industries.

[Spike]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: Why not package the Xbox 360 with only the hard drive and a wireless controller for $349.99, so that you can have one SKU
A: good question and one of the many combinations we looked at. with our research with hard core gamers, retailers, and the broader market, we felt like these two configurations were the right starting point. the great news is that the way we have desgined the system in a modular way we can easily adjust these configurations over time.

I'll just wait for the eventual System + HDD + wireless controller + Halo 3 bundle that'll most likely ship when the PS3 launches.

[Dyne]

i like how J said it has a dual layer dvd drive. WTF is a DL reading drive? i was under the impression every dvd rom reads dual layer discs. the only time its a selling point is in a burner.

[1CCOSA]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: Why not package the Xbox 360 with only the hard drive and a wireless controller for $349.99, so that you can have one SKU
A: good question and one of the many combinations we looked at. with our research with hard core gamers, retailers, and the broader market, we felt like these two configurations were the right starting point. the great news is that the way we have desgined the system in a modular way we can easily adjust these configurations over time.

Haha. "Research." Like they got a bunch of gamers into a room and asked them if they'd rather have the HD included as it was with the first system.

Pure bean counter decision. And not a very good one, for the consumer at least.

i like how J said it has a dual layer dvd drive. WTF is a DL reading drive? i was under the impression every dvd rom reads dual layer discs. the only time its a selling point is in a burner.

Excellent point.

Allard should try dating Perrin Kaplan, between their astronomically combined BS they'd get along great.

[SonofdonCD]

Of course. Games are always the reason to buy something. If PS3 isn't coming until next fall I may just get a 360 anyway - RR6, Oblivion, Frame City Killer, PGR3, those all look worth getting, and I can always trade it in if need be. Most people will end up owning both down the road when it's more affordable and the must-have games have come out for both. But that won't be for another 2-3 years.

Okay, cool. Then I don't see what's the problem here?

No, they'll undoubtedly charge more. I don't mind paying as long as I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. I just really don't like the decisions Microsoft's been making all summer.

Well, they're trying to push as far ahead technology-wise without absolutely obliterating our wallets and bankrupting their investors. There comes a point in developing anything tech-wise where you gotta say "we have to stop trying to add more and more and try to release this thing", and hopefully for an affordable price, or at least at a price where you can see the value in what you're paying for.

It'd be stupid for MS to wait for this whole Blue-Ray/HD-DVD war or unification thing happen. By that time, Sony will be out with their BR-ready PS3, giving up their one chance at getting more 360s out before Sony hits.

And I just don't see how any developer can afford to fill up a BD-DVD for their games. There should never be a problem on 360's part because hey, we can just use another DVD. The only real advantage of Blue-Ray is for movies, and that's only if it takes off.

They've developed what's by all accounts a really powerful, well rounded system that potentially is somewhat less powerful than the PS3, at least on paper. They are courting more japanese devs than they ever had, and that's a lot better than last round. They are releasing a $400 bundle that is worth more than that when each component is sold on its own (ie: that's a good deal). You'd haev to pay almost $200 dollars more if you buy the core system to equal what is bundled in the premium system. No matter what you think of the core system, that premium system is definitely worth it in the long run.

While it's not optimal for the casual gamer, it's by no means unreasonable. (the peripherals OTOH are another story) If people need to decide whether it's a matter of them getting the system at launch or after, then whatever. You decide for yourself. But it seems to me that everyone is complaining that the system isn't $300 with the HDD, not that there's two bundles. If there were two bundles with the core being $200-$250 without the HDD and $300-$350 with, I think people wouldn't really care.

[StriderKyo]

Give me links to this info.

You're going to be dropping half a grand+ on a system, and you don't know this info?

StriderKyo is my least trusted analyst since he isn't even in the games or financial analysis industries.

Did every Xbox game use the HDD for caching when it was standard on every system? No? So let's ask common sense what's going to happen when it isn't standard. Hey common sense, will it be used all the time?

Common sense: No. Don't be silly.

[Schlep]

Ok, so you can't provide info saying there's all these exclusives for the PS3 that'll never show up for the Xbox 360. Gotcha. All the analyst stuff I've read predicts the PS3 will own 53% of the market which is way down from the current 70% market share they have with the PS2. To me this means that the number of exclusives will drop even further in the next generation. Even Square-Enix has said they're aiming to be multi-platform.

As far as the HDD use, I don't see why everyone's going so nuts about the issue. Games that are multi-platform aren't going to use it to enhance the game, same as now, since the PS3 won't have a HD. Games that are built exclusively for Xbox will more than likely take the time to integrate what Microsoft says is an easy option for HD caching into their game.

My common sense is reading what's been said about the consoles and reacting. I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the PS3 or Revolution, because jack shit is known about either of them, and what is known, is likely to change (eg. the controllerang that Sony says isn't a final design).